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This might not be a popular opinion for some, but can't we move as a society beyond the point where having a naked picture online would not be upsetting or harm
by wvh 5y ago
This might not be a popular opinion for some, but can't we move as a society beyond the point where having a naked picture online would not be upsetting or harmful for the person involved? I can't help but think that if we were all to put a couple of nudes online, the whole "Oh! Shame!" moral outrage would be pretty much over.
On the one hand, there's a person's privacy and individual rights, but on the other hand is also society's response which makes a bigger deal out of erotic and sexual material than it perhaps needs to be. It might be worthwhile to also fight this from the other side and try to re-educate society not to point the finger at people for having sex or appearing in nude imagery. After all, the concern seems mostly about the consequences to the lives of the people involved rather nudity itself, so why not also try to turn the whole concept into something more positive on a societal level and fight the victimisation and shame that way?
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- rosndo 5y agoYeah, it’s really pathetic that we accept this as horrible without questioning whether or not it needs to be that way.
- paulpauper 5y agothe problem is involutory porn. that is what the article focuses on, not the moralistic aspect of nudity
- rosndo 5y agoInvoluntary porn is so harmful specifically because of the moralistic aspect of nudity. We could just accept that sex is normal and a video of you fucking isn’t different than a video of you playing golf.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- odux 5y agoIrrespective of one’s moral views, whether one consented (to the act, or filming the act or publicly sharing the video) is a serious concern.
- rosndo 5y agoSure, but being involuntarily filmed while having sex is currently much more harmful than being involuntarily filmed while golfing. There is no good reason it has to be this way, sex is one of the most normal activities one could be engaged in. Perhaps we should assign some blame to the society around the victims?
- odux 5y agoBecause sex is intimate and personal. Today getting involuntarily filmed kissing is more harmful than involuntarily filmed playing golf, and kissing is socially acceptable in most western cultures.
- code_runner 5y agoYou’re really standing up a straw man here and I’m not convinced you’re even winning against it.
- rosndo 5y agoI’m not sure that you know what that means. What straw man are you referring to?
- jfk13 5y agoOf course sex is normal, but thousands of years of societal development in vastly different circumstances around the world tend overwhelmingly to agree that it is a private matter, not a spectacle for public entertainment. Perhaps we shouldn't be in quite such a hurry to discard centuries of tradition just because "gee, the internet makes it easy and anonymous..."
- chad_oliver 5y agoI disagree. I'm not trying to be inflammatory but it seems like your statement is similar to saying "rape is so harmful specifically because of our society's attitudes to sex". Yeah, social stigma can make the consequences of rape a lot worse, but that's not at all the only reason why rape is bad. I think the same logic applies to involuntary porn. Among other things, involuntary porn is a massive violation of privacy. Maybe some individuals don't feel that this area needs to be private, but what matters is whether the _victim_ wants it to be private. If your solution is "the victims shouldn't make such a big deal of this", that's wishful thinking not a solution.
- rosndo 5y ago> If your solution is "the victims shouldn't make such a big deal of this", that's wishful thinking not a solution. That’s a really twisted interpretation of what I wrote. Rather, I believe that we should strongly condemn those who further victimize these people by voicing their puritanical views in any form.
- dymk 5y agoHaving revenge porn of yourself on the internet is extremely traumatizing regardless of what other people think of it.
- rosndo 5y agoIt’s precisely the opinions of other people which makes it extremely traumatizing. Lets not pretend that this is some inherent part of human nature.
- dymk 5y agoNo, it’s not, and victims of revenge porn will tell you as such. Everybody thinks muggings are wrong, and yet people are traumatized by muggings. People thing school shootings are wrong, yet they’re traumatic. I suggest you go ask one for yourself if you don’t believe me, because frankly you don’t know what you’re talking about.
- mensetmanusman 5y agoMost accept that people are human, and humans don’t normally think sex is equivalent to sports in regards to involvement from others in public.
- rosndo 5y agoAre you arguing that this is an inherent part of human nature? Your comment doesn’t make any sense otherwise. Could you provide some evidence to support that claim? I am claiming is that this isn’t an inherent part of human nature, and therefore we can do better. If you are instead making a statement regarding current state of things, you’ve failed to read the comment you’re replying to
- mensetmanusman 5y agoHumans are human nature. I may be generalizing from 7 billion data points though:)
- rosndo 5y agoWhat you’re saying still doesn’t make any sense in context unless you’ve misinterpreted me very badly.
- code_runner 5y agoIn a few generations when some stigmas go away and we are slightly closer to this mythical society… distributing personal moments of others, especially in compromising positions will still be wrong. So now, and in the future, we need to punish the victimizers.