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> At some point, an ex-boyfriend is not likely to want to keep modifying a video to piss off his ex It is not only the ex who keeps uploading again and again.

> At some point, an ex-boyfriend is not likely to want to keep modifying a video to piss off his ex It is not only the ex who keeps uploading again and again. Once videos get into the wild, you have all sorts of people/bots who do this, some just for the kinks, some for money / promoting the next pill/crypto whatever spam, some "fans" genuinely wouldn't know that the video was made without consent and that she is really high, There is so much "situational" or "incest" porn out there many cannot differentiate acting high and being actually high. Also lines get blurry, how much of any actual porn (amateur or professional) is with real informed consent, do actors really know what they are getting into? . How many young OF streamers are doing it for small money and it will haunt them later in life ? A ton of legal porn is exploitative too, we don't have solutions for any of this.

sandworm101 5y ago
>> A ton of legal porn is exploitative too, we don't have solutions for any of this. Money. That is why they get paid. We can debate how much and tell stories about porn stars who are stuck in bad contracts, but the systemic answer to exploitation is the exchange of money.
- berdario 5y ago
  Money is an answer to exploitation about as much as A slaver feeding their slaves is an answer to slavery. Just because you get something in exchange, doesn't mean that there's no power imbalance, the exploitation doesn't exist, and the people with less power don't actually have few alternatives to survive. If you're arguing for: "they should be paid more!" Because currently the pay is unfair and doesn't take into account potential long term damage, that's fair... But it's not a realistic solution (how do you unionize gig workers? Because at the end of the day, people on OF have more in common with the gig economy than with porn actors of yore)
  - sandworm101 5y ago
    No. With money comes contracts and consent. The contract (offer and acceptance) creates evidence of intent. Then after things go horribly wrong and courts get involved, money is used to provide compenation for wrongs done. The system exists. It is an imperfect answer but it does function.
    - goblin89 5y ago
      Imagine you are compelled by a few seasoned guys to enter a contract when you are at the youngest age that is allowed by law (which is how they like it). You are half intimidated, half curious and you don’t have a lawyer you can ask for legal advice on this matter. The power asymmetry, physiological and emotional factors at play, the irreversibility of the action (the guys working you know that once they have a tape, you are quite easily manipulated), their gain and your potential damage exceed those in any legal industry. Yeah, you are paid a hundred bucks and “money makes it legal”.
      - esyir 5y ago
        Hey, are you talking about the military? Here's the thing though, we do set a line after which you're legally given as much rope as you want to hang yourself with. I don't see how you fix the adverse outcomes without causing even worse failure in other areas.
        goblin89 5y ago
        Let’s be stark: to equate military to this is to treat military service as exploitation for someone’s financial gain and pleasure. It could be a valid position, but not necessarily the one I would consider mainstream. Addendum: ah, and vastly different implications. Service in most countries is not associated with a stigma, is much more transparent, etc.
  - cik2e 5y ago
    It sounds like what you're saying would apply to like almost every job ever. What's the solution?
GeoAtreides 5y ago
> real informed consent How many people getting a mortgage really know what they're getting into? A credit card? The people buying GME stock... do they really understand what's going on?
- ketralnis 5y ago
  Two things can be bad and you're allowed to try to fix one of them even while the other one is still bad
- SolarNet 5y ago
  I mean you have a good point. Which is why people should be afforded a basic income and guaranteed housing, so they can't be exploited like this.
- manquer 5y ago
  Are you implying exploitative consent is okay in porn because it normalized in other places? I don't really wish to argue your examples that all lead to financial ruin( arguably easier to reverse in life) is definitely worse than the social stigma and mental health damage the way revenge or commercial porn can have , there better examples you could have used[1]. However it doesn't matter if something else is just as worse or exists and also exploitative[2], that has no bearing on how porn should be better handled. [1] Here is a better example for your whataboutism argument - informed medical consent , most patients are neither in a mental state to give informed consent nor they have subject matter expertise to do so. Decisions can be fatal or have irreversible impact on your life [2] Non ETF investing definitely needs to be gated with some certification/ educational course on risks especially for derivatives trading, it should also cover crypto , we already have some gating for accredited investors, but this is not relevant for this discussion.
  - chrononaut 5y ago
    > Are you implying exploitative consent is okay in porn because it normalized in other places? >... > Here is a better example for your whataboutism argument ... Not OP, but I think you might be over-analyzing their comment. I am interpreting their short comment as opening a thread of conversation on the notion of what "real informed consent" means, and adding other circumstances where an outsider would also reasonably expect informed consent, yet people find themselves in undesired circumstances. That's it, as that's all that's written.

sandworm101 5y ago

>> A ton of legal porn is exploitative too, we don't have solutions for any of this. Money. That is why they get paid. We can debate how much and tell stories about porn stars who are stuck in bad contracts, but the systemic answer to exploitation is the exchange of money.

berdario 5y ago
Money is an answer to exploitation about as much as A slaver feeding their slaves is an answer to slavery. Just because you get something in exchange, doesn't mean that there's no power imbalance, the exploitation doesn't exist, and the people with less power don't actually have few alternatives to survive. If you're arguing for: "they should be paid more!" Because currently the pay is unfair and doesn't take into account potential long term damage, that's fair... But it's not a realistic solution (how do you unionize gig workers? Because at the end of the day, people on OF have more in common with the gig economy than with porn actors of yore)
- sandworm101 5y ago
  No. With money comes contracts and consent. The contract (offer and acceptance) creates evidence of intent. Then after things go horribly wrong and courts get involved, money is used to provide compenation for wrongs done. The system exists. It is an imperfect answer but it does function.
  - goblin89 5y ago
    Imagine you are compelled by a few seasoned guys to enter a contract when you are at the youngest age that is allowed by law (which is how they like it). You are half intimidated, half curious and you don’t have a lawyer you can ask for legal advice on this matter. The power asymmetry, physiological and emotional factors at play, the irreversibility of the action (the guys working you know that once they have a tape, you are quite easily manipulated), their gain and your potential damage exceed those in any legal industry. Yeah, you are paid a hundred bucks and “money makes it legal”.
    - esyir 5y ago
      Hey, are you talking about the military? Here's the thing though, we do set a line after which you're legally given as much rope as you want to hang yourself with. I don't see how you fix the adverse outcomes without causing even worse failure in other areas.
      - goblin89 5y ago
        Let’s be stark: to equate military to this is to treat military service as exploitation for someone’s financial gain and pleasure. It could be a valid position, but not necessarily the one I would consider mainstream. Addendum: ah, and vastly different implications. Service in most countries is not associated with a stigma, is much more transparent, etc.
- cik2e 5y ago
  It sounds like what you're saying would apply to like almost every job ever. What's the solution?

GeoAtreides 5y ago

> real informed consent How many people getting a mortgage really know what they're getting into? A credit card? The people buying GME stock... do they really understand what's going on?

ketralnis 5y ago
Two things can be bad and you're allowed to try to fix one of them even while the other one is still bad
SolarNet 5y ago
I mean you have a good point. Which is why people should be afforded a basic income and guaranteed housing, so they can't be exploited like this.
manquer 5y ago
Are you implying exploitative consent is okay in porn because it normalized in other places? I don't really wish to argue your examples that all lead to financial ruin( arguably easier to reverse in life) is definitely worse than the social stigma and mental health damage the way revenge or commercial porn can have , there better examples you could have used[1]. However it doesn't matter if something else is just as worse or exists and also exploitative[2], that has no bearing on how porn should be better handled. [1] Here is a better example for your whataboutism argument - informed medical consent , most patients are neither in a mental state to give informed consent nor they have subject matter expertise to do so. Decisions can be fatal or have irreversible impact on your life [2] Non ETF investing definitely needs to be gated with some certification/ educational course on risks especially for derivatives trading, it should also cover crypto , we already have some gating for accredited investors, but this is not relevant for this discussion.
- chrononaut 5y ago
  > Are you implying exploitative consent is okay in porn because it normalized in other places? >... > Here is a better example for your whataboutism argument ... Not OP, but I think you might be over-analyzing their comment. I am interpreting their short comment as opening a thread of conversation on the notion of what "real informed consent" means, and adding other circumstances where an outsider would also reasonably expect informed consent, yet people find themselves in undesired circumstances. That's it, as that's all that's written.