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If this is the case the solution is simple. Postpone the 5G allocation, make the altimeter manufacturers/users pay market price for the spectrum to those that

If this is the case the solution is simple. Postpone the 5G allocation, make the altimeter manufacturers/users pay market price for the spectrum to those that would have gotten it allocated until they can return the spectrum, and also pay a fine to the government for using spectrum not allocated to them (in the past, current and future breach covered with the rent mentioned before). And give some timeframe by which spectrum must be returned.

tjohns 5y ago
The radar altimeters aren't "using" (in the FCC sense) any of the 5G spectrum. This is an issue on the receive side. The FCC primarily regulates transmission, and the transmitters themselves are compliant. The FAA's TSO-C87 doesn't have any requirements for rx filtering either. So there's no legal grounds to fine anyone.
- ummonk 5y ago
  > The FAA's TSO-C87 doesn't have any requirements for rx filtering either. So there's no legal grounds to fine anyone. Then the FCC should proceed with the rollout of this allocation and let the clowns at Boeing and the FAA handle the fallout.
  - tjohns 5y ago
    That is exactly what's been happening. The FCC has continued with the 5G rollout, and the FAA published a NOTAM prohibiting use of radio altimeters on approach until each model can be proven safe. However, folks are now unhappy because that means no Cat II/III approaches, which means airliners can't land in fog or bad weather... which means significantly more airline delays while all this gets sorted out and equipment gets recertified or upgraded. Consequences. (Also, fwiw, the avionics aren't built by Boeing, and this is not a Boeing-specific issue. It impacts other aircraft from all manufacturers.)
    - berkut 5y ago
      It affects Airbus A220, Airbus A330, Boeing 737 and Boeing 787 most notibly. In that it's mostly a US-issue (Europe has much better protection in this area, i.e. that 5G antenna must be directed downwards, the 787 is the biggest issue, as those are doing international flights with other carriers to US airports. A220 is exclusively Delta in the US I believe.
      - tjohns 5y ago
        It also impacts smaller regional aircraft as well, like the Embraer 175.
  - hilbert42 5y ago
    "...and let the clowns at Boeing and the FAA handle the fallout." It's NOT their fault!, See my other posts about the ITU, WRC and international radio treaties. This issue has more to do with Spectrum Management planning failures and goes back as far as the 1980s when governments washed their hands of the matter and 'deregulated' spectrum matters because of commercial pressures. Moreover, they loosened the engineering (interference) specs now we're paying dearly for the fuck-ups.
akira2501 5y ago
It's even simpler than that. [0] You work with providers to measure impact and to reduce interference around airports. You issue NOTAMs (Notice To Air Missions) to all pilots know where this 5G interference is known to be a problem, and you wrap it all up with AD (Airworthiness Directive) for the 737 itself which specifies that those NOTAMs apply directly to the equipment on this make and type of aircraft. [0]: https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2022-03967.pdf https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2022-03967.pdf
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
driverdan 5y ago
This already happened. 5G roll out around airports has been postponed multiple times. The airlines don't want to fix the problem because it will cost them money. It's time to tell them tough shit.

tjohns 5y ago

The radar altimeters aren't "using" (in the FCC sense) any of the 5G spectrum. This is an issue on the receive side. The FCC primarily regulates transmission, and the transmitters themselves are compliant. The FAA's TSO-C87 doesn't have any requirements for rx filtering either. So there's no legal grounds to fine anyone.

ummonk 5y ago
> The FAA's TSO-C87 doesn't have any requirements for rx filtering either. So there's no legal grounds to fine anyone. Then the FCC should proceed with the rollout of this allocation and let the clowns at Boeing and the FAA handle the fallout.
- tjohns 5y ago
  That is exactly what's been happening. The FCC has continued with the 5G rollout, and the FAA published a NOTAM prohibiting use of radio altimeters on approach until each model can be proven safe. However, folks are now unhappy because that means no Cat II/III approaches, which means airliners can't land in fog or bad weather... which means significantly more airline delays while all this gets sorted out and equipment gets recertified or upgraded. Consequences. (Also, fwiw, the avionics aren't built by Boeing, and this is not a Boeing-specific issue. It impacts other aircraft from all manufacturers.)
  - berkut 5y ago
    It affects Airbus A220, Airbus A330, Boeing 737 and Boeing 787 most notibly. In that it's mostly a US-issue (Europe has much better protection in this area, i.e. that 5G antenna must be directed downwards, the 787 is the biggest issue, as those are doing international flights with other carriers to US airports. A220 is exclusively Delta in the US I believe.
    - tjohns 5y ago
      It also impacts smaller regional aircraft as well, like the Embraer 175.
- hilbert42 5y ago
  "...and let the clowns at Boeing and the FAA handle the fallout." It's NOT their fault!, See my other posts about the ITU, WRC and international radio treaties. This issue has more to do with Spectrum Management planning failures and goes back as far as the 1980s when governments washed their hands of the matter and 'deregulated' spectrum matters because of commercial pressures. Moreover, they loosened the engineering (interference) specs now we're paying dearly for the fuck-ups.

akira2501 5y ago

It's even simpler than that. [0] You work with providers to measure impact and to reduce interference around airports. You issue NOTAMs (Notice To Air Missions) to all pilots know where this 5G interference is known to be a problem, and you wrap it all up with AD (Airworthiness Directive) for the 737 itself which specifies that those NOTAMs apply directly to the equipment on this make and type of aircraft. [0]: https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2022-03967.pdf https://public-inspection.federalregister.gov/2022-03967.pdf

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

driverdan 5y ago

This already happened. 5G roll out around airports has been postponed multiple times. The airlines don't want to fix the problem because it will cost them money. It's time to tell them tough shit.