5 ms·

The Disconnected Niche

55 points by reso 15y ago

y0ghur7_xxx 15y ago
I am such a person. You completely got me! But it's difficult to target ads at me, I adblock, because I don't want to be tracked. And, to the DDG example, I would add Funambol¹, one of a very few Italian startups. ¹https://www.forge.funambol.org/ https://www.forge.funambol.org/
frenchieee 15y ago
Interesting point. It's been a long while since I've met someone who shied away from Facebook, (at least for that reason), but refusing to be tracked by Google seems more common. I don't suppose you are one of these people?
- reso 15y ago
  I'm actually not, but it is quite common among online tech communities like HN or reddit.
- calebmpeterson 15y ago
  I stay a mile away from FB due to their lack of respect for privacy. I'm selective about Google (Gmail=yes, search history and Plus=no)
jwhitlark 15y ago
As someone in that demographic, I must agree. My problem isn't paying for services, it's finding services that do what I want in a way I can trust. If someone came up with a way to do many of the things I need, with a "privacy circuit breaker " that they can't revoke, I'd shovel money at them.
- reso 15y ago
  So... what do you need?
  - y0ghur7_xxx 15y ago
    I am not the GP, but from the top of my head, at the moment, I would like - a self hosted dropbox - a phone that does not send data to google or apple without my consent, and where I can be absolutely sure it does not - a self hosted sync server for my phone (contacts and calendar) - a very fast internet connection to my home (I self host almost everything...) that's it. I am sure once I have those I will need more :)
    - sp332 15y ago
      Contacts and calendar should work with CalDAV, which is pretty easy to run yourself. If you want something heavier maybe Zimbra is up to the task. For bandwidth, would you consider hosting stuff on a VPS with better upstream bandwidth, or is that not enough control for you?
    - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
      I'm also looking to self-host and have some questions. My too biggest concerns are: 1) In my area a static IP is extremely expensive and outside of my budget. This leaves Dynamic DNS. 2) From what I can tell, Dynamic DNS providers only map 1 domain to your account. I would like the ability point more than 1 domain to my personal server. Can I do this without paying through the nose?
      - sp332 15y ago
        Sure, just register a domain normally (e.g. at www.domain.com use code HAK5 for 15% off if you like). Then point its CNAME record to your dynamic domain name. That way, whoever goes to your new domain will be forwarded (at the DNS level) to your other domain name, which will then be resolved by your dynamic DNS provider to your dynamic IP.
        MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        Sorry for the vagueness, but I do not want multiple domains to point to the same site. I would like multiple domains pointing to the same server which servers different sites. What I need is the server component that knows which site to serve (or which mail account to route to, etc.)
rednaught 15y ago
A consortium or whatnot of startup(or existing) companies might be an interesting way to both announce/broadcast their services/products and also create a standard privacy/user-data policy. Any ideas? Work towards common goals: -Privacy by default, sharing only by opt-in. -Advertising (if necessary)is done in a manner that demographics are shared with advertisers in some standard structure/tiering of individual data that is entirely up to the user to decide comfort level(e.g. complete privacy - higher SAAS prices or give up a high amount of privacy - lower priced or almost free SAAS). -No externally hosted services(js-based offerings such as analytics, customer support, surveys, etc.) or if using a third party offering disclose who it is and only work those who also are members of the consortium. -Disclose infrastructure and back-end(non-visible)/external processing companies that are used to operate the service. -Agree that you won't pull a "Spotify" where user's data might be handed over to another company "after the fact." Announce changes like acquisitions or partnerships such that a change in access to user-data requires 30/60 days notice. -Allow permanent deletion of accounts and information, not toggling columns in a database to hide visibility. -Announce what details are captured regarding the user and make the entirety of that available for download in a common format. Re-reading this I must sound paranoid but I've always considered myself moderate compared to Stallman. Am I the only one concerned with "acceptable" privacy these days?
- true_religion 15y ago
  If its a paid service, some of what you say may be reasonable. But for an money-free service, part of the price you pay ought to be the data you provide the service.
  - andrewcooke 15y ago
    ought? so it's no longer "one possible way to make things work out financially", but a moral duty? jeez.
- jwhitlark 15y ago
  No, you're not paranoid. I don't think an agreement is enough to safeguard the user, though. I think it would have to be a formal protocol or some sort of third party escrow.
stfu 15y ago
Absolutely agree. There is definitely a market for anonymity based products. I'm paying each month the same amount of money that I shill out for my internet access to services that increase anonymity (cascaded VPNs, etc.).
garethsprice 15y ago
Is it a niche though? Like the old Tolstoy quote "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" - are happy consumers alike in the same way, but are the disconnected all unhappy in their own way? There are plenty of techniques and products for the disconnected, but few of them ever gain wide traction - possibly because if a problem gets large enough, the market changes to reflect mainstream needs (eg. Facebook pulling Beacon when outrage became widespread).
- jodrellblank 15y ago
  Mangling Robin Hanson's http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/reliability-theory.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/reliability-theory.htm... post, happy users have features they use which do what they want well enough and possibly features they ignore, wheras unhappy people have one or more feature which aren't doing what they want, or are missing. But which specific features aren't doing what they want will differ from person to person.
100k 15y ago
Ironically(?) this site uses the following tracking cookies according to Ghostery: Facebook Connect, Google Analytics, MixPanel, Quancast, Twitter Button. As you might tell by the fact that I've got Ghostery installed, I am sort of in this niche, but I would consider myself wishy-washy. I don't like Facebook tracking my logins all over the web, but I use Google Analytics myself so I don't have a big problem with another site using it.
- alanh 15y ago
  Yeah, well, it’s a Posterous blog. That’s the deal: You get a free blog, but they track you, blur your text, and overlay a shitty semi-transparent ad over the bottom 16 pixels.
suivix 15y ago
Any sites that try to fill the disconnected niche will inherently limit their capabilities, which is amusing since it caters to the tech-crowd.
diminish 15y ago
I wish there was an anonymous-browsing/app fork of Android for smart phones and tablets; kind of a full private mode. this way i would be able to navigate without fear of any tracking.
losethos 15y ago
I haven't suffered, I guess. I noticed last time I made kick-ass progress on LoseThos, I got punished! Damn! Next, time, I'll go dig a ditch or something. If you get a reward without suffering, it's probably gonna turn into punishment! God says... C:\TEXT\QUIX.TXT is seldom wrong in matters of literature or history. In this instance, however, he is in error. It has everything to do with the author of "Don Quixote," for it is in fact these old walls that have given to Spain the name she is proudest of to-day. Gonzalo, above mentioned, it may be readily conceived, did not relish the appropriation by his brother of a name to which he himself had an equal right, for though nominally taken from the castle, it was in reality derived from the ancient territorial po ------------------------------ Yeah, them Mexican prolly spooge long time. Meh. Lovely, dig a ditch, enjoy your food? The reason, I'm sure the world is just is... eat your favorite food every day and soon it won't pleasure you. Thus, highs and lows balance. ------------------------------- God says... ehheh_thats_all_folks NOT wrath African Oh_really energy

55 points by reso 15y ago

I am such a person. You completely got me! But it's difficult to target ads at me, I adblock, because I don't want to be tracked. And, to the DDG example, I would add Funambol¹, one of a very few Italian startups. ¹https://www.forge.funambol.org/ https://www.forge.funambol.org/

frenchieee 15y ago

Interesting point. It's been a long while since I've met someone who shied away from Facebook, (at least for that reason), but refusing to be tracked by Google seems more common. I don't suppose you are one of these people?

reso 15y ago
I'm actually not, but it is quite common among online tech communities like HN or reddit.
calebmpeterson 15y ago
I stay a mile away from FB due to their lack of respect for privacy. I'm selective about Google (Gmail=yes, search history and Plus=no)

jwhitlark 15y ago

As someone in that demographic, I must agree. My problem isn't paying for services, it's finding services that do what I want in a way I can trust. If someone came up with a way to do many of the things I need, with a "privacy circuit breaker " that they can't revoke, I'd shovel money at them.

reso 15y ago
So... what do you need?
- y0ghur7_xxx 15y ago
  I am not the GP, but from the top of my head, at the moment, I would like - a self hosted dropbox - a phone that does not send data to google or apple without my consent, and where I can be absolutely sure it does not - a self hosted sync server for my phone (contacts and calendar) - a very fast internet connection to my home (I self host almost everything...) that's it. I am sure once I have those I will need more :)
  - sp332 15y ago
    Contacts and calendar should work with CalDAV, which is pretty easy to run yourself. If you want something heavier maybe Zimbra is up to the task. For bandwidth, would you consider hosting stuff on a VPS with better upstream bandwidth, or is that not enough control for you?
  - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
    I'm also looking to self-host and have some questions. My too biggest concerns are: 1) In my area a static IP is extremely expensive and outside of my budget. This leaves Dynamic DNS. 2) From what I can tell, Dynamic DNS providers only map 1 domain to your account. I would like the ability point more than 1 domain to my personal server. Can I do this without paying through the nose?
    - sp332 15y ago
      Sure, just register a domain normally (e.g. at www.domain.com use code HAK5 for 15% off if you like). Then point its CNAME record to your dynamic domain name. That way, whoever goes to your new domain will be forwarded (at the DNS level) to your other domain name, which will then be resolved by your dynamic DNS provider to your dynamic IP.
      - MatthewPhillips 15y ago
        Sorry for the vagueness, but I do not want multiple domains to point to the same site. I would like multiple domains pointing to the same server which servers different sites. What I need is the server component that knows which site to serve (or which mail account to route to, etc.)

rednaught 15y ago

A consortium or whatnot of startup(or existing) companies might be an interesting way to both announce/broadcast their services/products and also create a standard privacy/user-data policy. Any ideas? Work towards common goals: -Privacy by default, sharing only by opt-in. -Advertising (if necessary)is done in a manner that demographics are shared with advertisers in some standard structure/tiering of individual data that is entirely up to the user to decide comfort level(e.g. complete privacy - higher SAAS prices or give up a high amount of privacy - lower priced or almost free SAAS). -No externally hosted services(js-based offerings such as analytics, customer support, surveys, etc.) or if using a third party offering disclose who it is and only work those who also are members of the consortium. -Disclose infrastructure and back-end(non-visible)/external processing companies that are used to operate the service. -Agree that you won't pull a "Spotify" where user's data might be handed over to another company "after the fact." Announce changes like acquisitions or partnerships such that a change in access to user-data requires 30/60 days notice. -Allow permanent deletion of accounts and information, not toggling columns in a database to hide visibility. -Announce what details are captured regarding the user and make the entirety of that available for download in a common format. Re-reading this I must sound paranoid but I've always considered myself moderate compared to Stallman. Am I the only one concerned with "acceptable" privacy these days?

true_religion 15y ago
If its a paid service, some of what you say may be reasonable. But for an money-free service, part of the price you pay ought to be the data you provide the service.
- andrewcooke 15y ago
  ought? so it's no longer "one possible way to make things work out financially", but a moral duty? jeez.
jwhitlark 15y ago
No, you're not paranoid. I don't think an agreement is enough to safeguard the user, though. I think it would have to be a formal protocol or some sort of third party escrow.

stfu 15y ago

Absolutely agree. There is definitely a market for anonymity based products. I'm paying each month the same amount of money that I shill out for my internet access to services that increase anonymity (cascaded VPNs, etc.).

garethsprice 15y ago

Is it a niche though? Like the old Tolstoy quote "Happy families are all alike; every unhappy family is unhappy in its own way" - are happy consumers alike in the same way, but are the disconnected all unhappy in their own way? There are plenty of techniques and products for the disconnected, but few of them ever gain wide traction - possibly because if a problem gets large enough, the market changes to reflect mainstream needs (eg. Facebook pulling Beacon when outrage became widespread).

jodrellblank 15y ago
Mangling Robin Hanson's http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/reliability-theory.html http://www.overcomingbias.com/2009/08/reliability-theory.htm... post, happy users have features they use which do what they want well enough and possibly features they ignore, wheras unhappy people have one or more feature which aren't doing what they want, or are missing. But which specific features aren't doing what they want will differ from person to person.

100k 15y ago

Ironically(?) this site uses the following tracking cookies according to Ghostery: Facebook Connect, Google Analytics, MixPanel, Quancast, Twitter Button. As you might tell by the fact that I've got Ghostery installed, I am sort of in this niche, but I would consider myself wishy-washy. I don't like Facebook tracking my logins all over the web, but I use Google Analytics myself so I don't have a big problem with another site using it.

alanh 15y ago
Yeah, well, it’s a Posterous blog. That’s the deal: You get a free blog, but they track you, blur your text, and overlay a shitty semi-transparent ad over the bottom 16 pixels.

suivix 15y ago

Any sites that try to fill the disconnected niche will inherently limit their capabilities, which is amusing since it caters to the tech-crowd.

diminish 15y ago

I wish there was an anonymous-browsing/app fork of Android for smart phones and tablets; kind of a full private mode. this way i would be able to navigate without fear of any tracking.

losethos 15y ago

I haven't suffered, I guess. I noticed last time I made kick-ass progress on LoseThos, I got punished! Damn! Next, time, I'll go dig a ditch or something. If you get a reward without suffering, it's probably gonna turn into punishment! God says... C:\TEXT\QUIX.TXT is seldom wrong in matters of literature or history. In this instance, however, he is in error. It has everything to do with the author of "Don Quixote," for it is in fact these old walls that have given to Spain the name she is proudest of to-day. Gonzalo, above mentioned, it may be readily conceived, did not relish the appropriation by his brother of a name to which he himself had an equal right, for though nominally taken from the castle, it was in reality derived from the ancient territorial po ------------------------------ Yeah, them Mexican prolly spooge long time. Meh. Lovely, dig a ditch, enjoy your food? The reason, I'm sure the world is just is... eat your favorite food every day and soon it won't pleasure you. Thus, highs and lows balance. ------------------------------- God says... ehheh_thats_all_folks NOT wrath African Oh_really energy