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> Also, this seems to have the same problem as mastodon, where I have to create an account for each tube, no thanks. Creating an account per node is federation

> Also, this seems to have the same problem as mastodon, where I have to create an account for each tube, no thanks. Creating an account per node is federation working as intended. The idea is that this is then your identity across the network, the same way that you create an email address with an email provider that then lets you send email to users using other email providers. Each node should then network with other nodes to provide its users access to videos from nodes it trusts (same as Mastodon does - you don't have to be on the same node as a user you follow as long as your node networks with their node). The trust model is centered around your trust of the admin of a particular node, which brings a more human scale to the tech (particularly as compared to something like YouTube). Federation is coming back into vogue particularly now as a reaction to the Facebook/Google problem where a single entity collects all the data about all users of the platform and can unilaterally ban a user with no recourse. In a federated network a node decides what other nodes it federates with and so self-regulates. But email is an example of federated technology everyone uses.

hannasanarion 5y ago
> Federation is coming back into vogue particularly now as a reaction to the Facebook/Google problem where a single entity collects all the data about all users of the platform and can unilaterally ban a user with no recourse. In a federated network a node decides what other nodes it federates with and so self-regulates. But email is an example of federated technology everyone uses. I swear I read this exact sentence back in 2017 when Mastodon first came out with a splash and it has only gotten less relevant in the five years since.
- indigochill 5y ago
  > it has only gotten less relevant in the five years since What does "relevant" mean? Hacker News is irrelevant to people who aren't into the tech scene. Mastodon is irrelevant if someone doesn't care about federation, but for those of us who do, it's still as relevant as ever. Neither Hacker News nor federation (I expect) are going to take over the world, but they have their respective audiences.
  - hannasanarion 5y ago
    > Neither Hacker News nor federation (I expect) are going to take over the world, but they have their respective audiences. You see how this is at odds with the claim that federation is "in vogue", right? Federation is a small and shrinking niche. It had a brief moment in 2017, and has been in recession ever since.
    - naasking 5y ago
      What is the evidence of this recession?
      - hannasanarion 5y ago
        What is the evidence that it's "in vogue"? The only major events in the fediverse from the last several years to have any cultural impact is the rise of federated porn after the Tumblr exodus, and the rise in federated white nationalist forums after Trump got banned from Twitter. The fact that federation is becoming popular among pornographers and fascists is certainly not backing up the assertion that federation is "in vogue".
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - altantiprocrast 5y ago
      Is it really shrinking? Mastodon gained 950k users in 2021, combining with other platforms they probably gained over a million. https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2021/12/mastodon-recap-2021/ https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2021/12/mastodon-recap-2021/ Projects like Matrix.org are also seeing huge growth. Of course these are nothing on FAANG scale, but still far from shrinking.
      - hannasanarion 5y ago
        Of those 950,000 sign-ups, only 814 users remained active according to the very same page you linked. That's not a cultural wave, that's a fad more swingy than gym memberships in January. "Vogue" technologies don't have a 99.93% churn rate.
- imwillofficial 5y ago
  Well you know, without the “back” part of “coming back”
grumbel 5y ago
> Creating an account per node is federation working as intended. I call that broken by design. Having your identity tied to a server means somebody else controls it. Email has the same problem, if GMail changes the ways it handles emails and makes a provider switch necessary, tough luck, you now have to tell everybody that you are moving to a new sever and your email/identity changed. Just using a GPG key to represent your identity or something along those lines would be a much better way to handle it.
- seanhunter 5y ago
  > Just using a GPG key to represent your identity or something along those lines would be a much better way to handle it. This is something the web3 world is moving towards a user-friendly solution for[1]. A web3 wallet (something like metamask which is a browser extension) actually holds a public/private key pair. Websites can authenticate by asking the user to "connect their wallet"[2] which actually means signing a message which the site can validate. To do this, the browser extension shows a popup showing the relevant bits of the request with "Approve" and "Reject" buttons. Once signed you are able to use the facilities of whatever website even though you don't have any sort of account. If at a later stage I want to revoke my approval I can just do that in my wallet - I don't even need to go to the site and there is of course no account to delete there. You can easily maintain multiple distinct personas because a wallet can contain multiple "accounts".[3] Something similar might presumably work for the fediverse. No accounts just an identity service/API that allows sites to get your public key and ask you to verify things by signing with the private key. [1] I say moving towards because there are plenty of rough edges, but the basic idea is pretty good and the UX is already streets ahead of the normal GPG verification/signing type workflows [2] There is an API called "walletConnect" and as long as wallets and sites implement that, they are able to interoperate fairly seamlessly (in theory). In practise it doesn't always work that great. https://docs.walletconnect.com/ https://docs.walletconnect.com/ [3] These are actually an address and a keypair. The address is used to perform transactions on the blockchain so wouldn't be relevant to the fediverse I wouldn't think.
  - rank0 5y ago
    I see this a lot as a justification for crypto and tbh I don’t buy it. Why can’t we just use key pairs without all the commodity token nonsense? Blockchains are a hyper redundant global network of adversarial servers. This is the silliest way possible to implement a key based id system.
russdpale 5y ago
"Creating an account per node is federation working as intended." Ok well that isn't convenient, like at all. So it's basically a non starter for me. "Federation is coming back into vogue" Federation is absolutely not in vogue, and never has been vogue. Not even close to it. Where in the world did you get that idea?
- southerntofu 5y ago
  > "Creating an account per node is federation working as intended." That's misinformed. You need an account on an instance where you want to publish videos (although maybe publishing to a federated channel is supported now?), but you only need one account to consume content. In fact, you don't even need to use a Peertube account, as the protocol is based on ActivityPub so most clients (like Mastodon) will be able to receive updates from peertube channels you follow. > Federation is absolutely not in vogue, and never has been vogue. email is federated. WWW is federated (src/href). They are two of the most widely-used protocols. So federation is not exactly hyped because most people don't even realize they're using federation, but it's certainly useful and popular.

hannasanarion 5y ago

> Federation is coming back into vogue particularly now as a reaction to the Facebook/Google problem where a single entity collects all the data about all users of the platform and can unilaterally ban a user with no recourse. In a federated network a node decides what other nodes it federates with and so self-regulates. But email is an example of federated technology everyone uses. I swear I read this exact sentence back in 2017 when Mastodon first came out with a splash and it has only gotten less relevant in the five years since.

indigochill 5y ago
> it has only gotten less relevant in the five years since What does "relevant" mean? Hacker News is irrelevant to people who aren't into the tech scene. Mastodon is irrelevant if someone doesn't care about federation, but for those of us who do, it's still as relevant as ever. Neither Hacker News nor federation (I expect) are going to take over the world, but they have their respective audiences.
- hannasanarion 5y ago
  > Neither Hacker News nor federation (I expect) are going to take over the world, but they have their respective audiences. You see how this is at odds with the claim that federation is "in vogue", right? Federation is a small and shrinking niche. It had a brief moment in 2017, and has been in recession ever since.
  - naasking 5y ago
    What is the evidence of this recession?
    - hannasanarion 5y ago
      What is the evidence that it's "in vogue"? The only major events in the fediverse from the last several years to have any cultural impact is the rise of federated porn after the Tumblr exodus, and the rise in federated white nationalist forums after Trump got banned from Twitter. The fact that federation is becoming popular among pornographers and fascists is certainly not backing up the assertion that federation is "in vogue".
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - altantiprocrast 5y ago
    Is it really shrinking? Mastodon gained 950k users in 2021, combining with other platforms they probably gained over a million. https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2021/12/mastodon-recap-2021/ https://blog.joinmastodon.org/2021/12/mastodon-recap-2021/ Projects like Matrix.org are also seeing huge growth. Of course these are nothing on FAANG scale, but still far from shrinking.
    - hannasanarion 5y ago
      Of those 950,000 sign-ups, only 814 users remained active according to the very same page you linked. That's not a cultural wave, that's a fad more swingy than gym memberships in January. "Vogue" technologies don't have a 99.93% churn rate.
imwillofficial 5y ago
Well you know, without the “back” part of “coming back”

grumbel 5y ago

> Creating an account per node is federation working as intended. I call that broken by design. Having your identity tied to a server means somebody else controls it. Email has the same problem, if GMail changes the ways it handles emails and makes a provider switch necessary, tough luck, you now have to tell everybody that you are moving to a new sever and your email/identity changed. Just using a GPG key to represent your identity or something along those lines would be a much better way to handle it.

seanhunter 5y ago
> Just using a GPG key to represent your identity or something along those lines would be a much better way to handle it. This is something the web3 world is moving towards a user-friendly solution for[1]. A web3 wallet (something like metamask which is a browser extension) actually holds a public/private key pair. Websites can authenticate by asking the user to "connect their wallet"[2] which actually means signing a message which the site can validate. To do this, the browser extension shows a popup showing the relevant bits of the request with "Approve" and "Reject" buttons. Once signed you are able to use the facilities of whatever website even though you don't have any sort of account. If at a later stage I want to revoke my approval I can just do that in my wallet - I don't even need to go to the site and there is of course no account to delete there. You can easily maintain multiple distinct personas because a wallet can contain multiple "accounts".[3] Something similar might presumably work for the fediverse. No accounts just an identity service/API that allows sites to get your public key and ask you to verify things by signing with the private key. [1] I say moving towards because there are plenty of rough edges, but the basic idea is pretty good and the UX is already streets ahead of the normal GPG verification/signing type workflows [2] There is an API called "walletConnect" and as long as wallets and sites implement that, they are able to interoperate fairly seamlessly (in theory). In practise it doesn't always work that great. https://docs.walletconnect.com/ https://docs.walletconnect.com/ [3] These are actually an address and a keypair. The address is used to perform transactions on the blockchain so wouldn't be relevant to the fediverse I wouldn't think.
- rank0 5y ago
  I see this a lot as a justification for crypto and tbh I don’t buy it. Why can’t we just use key pairs without all the commodity token nonsense? Blockchains are a hyper redundant global network of adversarial servers. This is the silliest way possible to implement a key based id system.

russdpale 5y ago

"Creating an account per node is federation working as intended." Ok well that isn't convenient, like at all. So it's basically a non starter for me. "Federation is coming back into vogue" Federation is absolutely not in vogue, and never has been vogue. Not even close to it. Where in the world did you get that idea?

southerntofu 5y ago
> "Creating an account per node is federation working as intended." That's misinformed. You need an account on an instance where you want to publish videos (although maybe publishing to a federated channel is supported now?), but you only need one account to consume content. In fact, you don't even need to use a Peertube account, as the protocol is based on ActivityPub so most clients (like Mastodon) will be able to receive updates from peertube channels you follow. > Federation is absolutely not in vogue, and never has been vogue. email is federated. WWW is federated (src/href). They are two of the most widely-used protocols. So federation is not exactly hyped because most people don't even realize they're using federation, but it's certainly useful and popular.