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I was looking at this before and went to https://open.tube/ https://open.tube/ to explore the content to see how the community looked. The front page had a vid

I was looking at this before and went to https://open.tube/ https://open.tube/ to explore the content to see how the community looked. The front page had a video of extreme violence on it and I never returned. Looking now the front page is mostly political flamebait. A real community growing on the back of this technology will require either YouTube screwing up royally or some sort of grassroots effort based on micro payments to content creators (as opposed to ads) I think.

jeroenhd 5y ago
The problem with these decentralised platforms is that the first people to flock to them are the people who have been deplatformed by major services. Some services try to capitalize on that (Gab, Trump's Twitter) while others ignore the problem and end up destined to be abandoned by normal people. Large parts of the Mastodon network are filled with porn and alt-right accounts that got banned from Twitter. Youtube alternatives are quickly filled with conspiracy theories and other content even Youtube doesn't want its algorithm to push. Hell, even centralised services have this problem; DailyMotion is the last real Youtube alternative and these days it's mostly pirated content, from what I can tell. Until some major content providers switch, which they won't, because they'll lose their income, there won't be a transition to free software. I fear the Fediverse came about 10 years too late to be successful.
- zaik 5y ago
  > Mastodon network are filled with porn and alt-right accounts that got banned from Twitter I did not notice this at all, even looking at the federated timeline.
  - jeroenhd 5y ago
    The alt-right servers tend to get defederated rather quickly. The porn usually doesn't show up, but when it does, it does with a vengeance. There's a _lot_ of it, you usually just don't encounter it.
- Shared404 5y ago
  > Large parts of the Mastodon network are filled with porn and alt-right accounts that got banned from Twitter. Isn't the design of Mastodon such that you can join a homeserver tailored so that you don't interact with those things?
dymk 5y ago
> The moral of the story is: if you’re against witch-hunts, and you promise to found your own little utopian community where witch-hunts will never happen, your new society will end up consisting of approximately three principled civil libertarians and seven zillion witches. It will be a terrible place to live even if witch-hunts are genuinely wrong. https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/01/neutral-vs-conservative-the-eternal-struggle/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/01/neutral-vs-conservativ...
- loudtieblahblah 5y ago
  Which is why breaking away from the centralized web sucks. Rumble, voat, parler, gab, even as I feel like the left has left me these days, these places still largely look like dumpster fires to me. The centralized web is awful. Getting away from it is awful. I don't know what's worse - the endless corporate censorship or the insanely explicit content, outright bigotry, and anti-science quacks who fill up spaces rebelling against it. My ethics says the Corp censorship is far more problematic (when taking in the big picture) , but as someone wanting to participate in a free and constructive community it leaves one with no where to go. Social media was a mistake. Allowing tech companies to become as big as they are were too.
  - toyg 5y ago
    > The centralized web is awful. Getting away from it is awful. That's just because a significant amount of people are awful. And now everyone is on the web, including the awful ones. It's not social media, it's us.
    - ectopod 5y ago
      It's both. Social media provides a positive feedback loop for awfulness.
      - stjohnswarts 5y ago
        It certainly polarizes people. The people in the middle who aren't that passionate about things tend to just scroll past, but the “passionate” ones just yell at each other and either keep doing that ad inifinitum or they form an echo chamber where they can call others snowflakes.
mmastrac 5y ago
History is littered with failures when competitors catering to ejected parts of a community try to make it work. You can't start a site based on the rejects.
- paxys 5y ago
  More accurately, if you start a site based on the rejects then it will only contain the content and community that was rejected in the first place. You can probably succeed if you brand it specifically for that crowd, but don't expect anyone else to switch.
- tpoacher 5y ago
  Tell that to Australia
  - mmastrac 5y ago
    I know it was a bit of a snarky throwaway comment, but I would be interested to see how Australia succeeded given its penal colony history (I admittedly know nothing).
    - weq 5y ago
      The crooks created mining, grazing, farming and other resource extraction companies and exported/are exporting everything they could/can get there grubby hands. Now this entrenched power has formed poltical parties who reinforce their positons through policies. Ala Australias climate policy and rotating doors of ex-politicans joining boards of the companies they gave a leg up to while in office.
      - bean5 5y ago
        Isn't this basically how it works everywhere?
      - KennyBlanken 5y ago
        Don't forget "exploited the hell out of the people who lived there before England dumped them on the continent."
raro11 5y ago
I clicked and as you said, there is a lot of political video's and violence but also a shit ton of pedo-talk. Added it to my pihole. And now I need some feelgood or else I can't sleep tonight
- Shared404 5y ago
  > And now I need some feelgood or else I can't sleep tonight https://teddit.net/r/eyebleach https://teddit.net/r/eyebleach :)
- null0pointer 5y ago
  With the exception of illegal content this is how it should be. “I don’t like this so I’m going to block it so I don’t have to look at it again” rather than “I don’t like this so nobody should be allowed to look at it”.
older 5y ago
https://tilvids.com/ https://tilvids.com/ is a better instance.
seaman1921 5y ago
absolutely - most people are clueless how much goes around keeping youtube free from abusers of all kind - its no joke
BbzzbB 5y ago
What I find even weirder (kind of) is that the top recommendations are not only very polarizing and politically loaded (vaccines, convoy, "evil agenda", "journalistic hypocrisy" and police violence), 5/6 in the top row have literally 2 views. So it's not that they've generated engagement to end up there, the algorithm straight up defaults to promoting them.
- RC_ITR 5y ago
  And what's even more wild is that every single one of those videos has a click-bait title and thumbnail. I think it's always telling which creatives are the first to 'defect' to a new platform and it seems like all of these 'open streaming alternatives' just attract the people who failed to gain traction on closed platforms (rather than people who actually care about the technology).
summerlight 5y ago
Yeah, no social media can (or should) scale massively without appropriate moderation. If the history of social media can give us some lessons, it should be that there must be someone who takes control of the social platform and should be accountable for its impacts on society.
- bsdetector 5y ago
  That someone who takes control of moderation should be the user. In the past, most USENET was small enough that people maintained their own individual blocklists of bad actors and ignored them. Today, we crowdsource a personal blocklist with EasyList and other lists that users opt into. The only centralized or automated moderation any media needs is to stop bots and spam. If you went to opentube and you had the option to view only "family friendly" videos then even sensitive people could use the site without being offended.
  - jiggunjer 5y ago
    Blacklists make sense for news feeds, but whitelists seem more useful for media consumption.
    - bsdetector 5y ago
      The way Minds works is if you miscategorize offensive content as family friendly too many times then your whole account is made NSFW. Offensive videos are not censored, but you have to opt-in to seeing them. The choice is always with the user what type of content they want to see.
- dijonman2 5y ago
  I disagree, I think o. the surface censorship is appealing but as someone who enjoyed the early days of high speed internet I prefer raw unmoderated content. I’m an adult and can navigate away. The world is a tough place. Pretending that bad stuff doesn’t happen is akin to putting your head in the sand. Should it be front and center? Probably not. But it shouldn’t be “banned”. It’s a slippery slope, moderation can and will be abused. Just look at the reddit zealots.
ekianjo 5y ago
> I was looking at this before and went to https://open.tube/ https://open.tube/ to explore the content to see how the community looked You do realize you picked an instance where the top videos have less than 10 views, don't you? Seems like you just went to cherry pick the worst and the least representative.
- summerlight 5y ago
  That's another problem. This particular platform actively promotes the worst video, even if it does not accurately represent the community. I must ask: who is accountable of this spectacular moderation failure?
  - djbebs 5y ago
    Lack of censorship is not a failure.
  - remram 5y ago
    You walked into their house...
  - scim-knox-twox 5y ago
    What "moderation failure"?
- fullshark 5y ago
  I assure you it was due to random chance (i got there after clicking "sita sings the blues" on the main page) and I didn't cherry pick that site. Possibly the tiny number of views was why it was so memorable though as something not gaining traction.
pinephoneguy 5y ago
It's compatible with mastodon which already has a fairly large community (you can follow peertube users and their videos will show up in your feed.) I think this kind of social network absolutely is the future because of how incompatible people's ideas about what is acceptable and what isn't are. If you find an instance who's moderators share your ideals you're good to go. No need to learn a new technology or give up most of your social network even!
amatecha 5y ago
I mean, you chose to browse an instance that describes it self as "a censorship-free Youtube alternative". What did you expect? Browse https://joinpeertube.org/instances https://joinpeertube.org/instances and for the "Sensitive videos" option, choose "Hide". Assuming you may be interested in tech/science, https://tube.tchncs.de/ https://tube.tchncs.de/ is quite a popular instance.
- fullshark 5y ago
  It wasn’t a conscious choice I think I came across it after clicking the “Sita Sings the Blues” link. Again like mastodon, the various instances are confusing to most people to be honest. But yeah I can see a grassroots instance around some hobby or interest being able to sustain itself.
- joe_guy 5y ago
- rideontime 5y ago
jbirer 5y ago
People like freedom and lack of censorship until it's a political opinion they don't like, like poetry.
bigbugbag 5y ago
Not sure what you criteria for "real community" is, but AFAIK there are already communities using this technology. The micro-payment as opposed to ads model already exists on third party services such as utip, tipee, onlyfans, etc. and is the main source of revenue for most video content creators. When peertube aware content creators explains why they choose youtube as their main platform the given answer is the large userbase and visibility a.k.a. The network effect and dominant position youtube has. Though twitch and tiktok seems to putting a serious dent as many youtubers turn to twitch for live content and interacting with their communities in a healthier way than youtube where toxicity prevails, and with tiktok for engaging with their communities with shorter videos requirient less effort and escaping the youtube algorithm.

jeroenhd 5y ago

The problem with these decentralised platforms is that the first people to flock to them are the people who have been deplatformed by major services. Some services try to capitalize on that (Gab, Trump's Twitter) while others ignore the problem and end up destined to be abandoned by normal people. Large parts of the Mastodon network are filled with porn and alt-right accounts that got banned from Twitter. Youtube alternatives are quickly filled with conspiracy theories and other content even Youtube doesn't want its algorithm to push. Hell, even centralised services have this problem; DailyMotion is the last real Youtube alternative and these days it's mostly pirated content, from what I can tell. Until some major content providers switch, which they won't, because they'll lose their income, there won't be a transition to free software. I fear the Fediverse came about 10 years too late to be successful.

zaik 5y ago
> Mastodon network are filled with porn and alt-right accounts that got banned from Twitter I did not notice this at all, even looking at the federated timeline.
- jeroenhd 5y ago
  The alt-right servers tend to get defederated rather quickly. The porn usually doesn't show up, but when it does, it does with a vengeance. There's a _lot_ of it, you usually just don't encounter it.
Shared404 5y ago
> Large parts of the Mastodon network are filled with porn and alt-right accounts that got banned from Twitter. Isn't the design of Mastodon such that you can join a homeserver tailored so that you don't interact with those things?

dymk 5y ago

> The moral of the story is: if you’re against witch-hunts, and you promise to found your own little utopian community where witch-hunts will never happen, your new society will end up consisting of approximately three principled civil libertarians and seven zillion witches. It will be a terrible place to live even if witch-hunts are genuinely wrong. https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/01/neutral-vs-conservative-the-eternal-struggle/ https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/05/01/neutral-vs-conservativ...

loudtieblahblah 5y ago
Which is why breaking away from the centralized web sucks. Rumble, voat, parler, gab, even as I feel like the left has left me these days, these places still largely look like dumpster fires to me. The centralized web is awful. Getting away from it is awful. I don't know what's worse - the endless corporate censorship or the insanely explicit content, outright bigotry, and anti-science quacks who fill up spaces rebelling against it. My ethics says the Corp censorship is far more problematic (when taking in the big picture) , but as someone wanting to participate in a free and constructive community it leaves one with no where to go. Social media was a mistake. Allowing tech companies to become as big as they are were too.
- toyg 5y ago
  > The centralized web is awful. Getting away from it is awful. That's just because a significant amount of people are awful. And now everyone is on the web, including the awful ones. It's not social media, it's us.
  - ectopod 5y ago
    It's both. Social media provides a positive feedback loop for awfulness.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      It certainly polarizes people. The people in the middle who aren't that passionate about things tend to just scroll past, but the “passionate” ones just yell at each other and either keep doing that ad inifinitum or they form an echo chamber where they can call others snowflakes.

mmastrac 5y ago

History is littered with failures when competitors catering to ejected parts of a community try to make it work. You can't start a site based on the rejects.

paxys 5y ago
More accurately, if you start a site based on the rejects then it will only contain the content and community that was rejected in the first place. You can probably succeed if you brand it specifically for that crowd, but don't expect anyone else to switch.
tpoacher 5y ago
Tell that to Australia
- mmastrac 5y ago
  I know it was a bit of a snarky throwaway comment, but I would be interested to see how Australia succeeded given its penal colony history (I admittedly know nothing).
  - weq 5y ago
    The crooks created mining, grazing, farming and other resource extraction companies and exported/are exporting everything they could/can get there grubby hands. Now this entrenched power has formed poltical parties who reinforce their positons through policies. Ala Australias climate policy and rotating doors of ex-politicans joining boards of the companies they gave a leg up to while in office.
    - bean5 5y ago
      Isn't this basically how it works everywhere?
    - KennyBlanken 5y ago
      Don't forget "exploited the hell out of the people who lived there before England dumped them on the continent."

raro11 5y ago

I clicked and as you said, there is a lot of political video's and violence but also a shit ton of pedo-talk. Added it to my pihole. And now I need some feelgood or else I can't sleep tonight

Shared404 5y ago
> And now I need some feelgood or else I can't sleep tonight https://teddit.net/r/eyebleach https://teddit.net/r/eyebleach :)
null0pointer 5y ago
With the exception of illegal content this is how it should be. “I don’t like this so I’m going to block it so I don’t have to look at it again” rather than “I don’t like this so nobody should be allowed to look at it”.

older 5y ago

https://tilvids.com/ https://tilvids.com/ is a better instance.

seaman1921 5y ago

absolutely - most people are clueless how much goes around keeping youtube free from abusers of all kind - its no joke

BbzzbB 5y ago

What I find even weirder (kind of) is that the top recommendations are not only very polarizing and politically loaded (vaccines, convoy, "evil agenda", "journalistic hypocrisy" and police violence), 5/6 in the top row have literally 2 views. So it's not that they've generated engagement to end up there, the algorithm straight up defaults to promoting them.

RC_ITR 5y ago
And what's even more wild is that every single one of those videos has a click-bait title and thumbnail. I think it's always telling which creatives are the first to 'defect' to a new platform and it seems like all of these 'open streaming alternatives' just attract the people who failed to gain traction on closed platforms (rather than people who actually care about the technology).

summerlight 5y ago

Yeah, no social media can (or should) scale massively without appropriate moderation. If the history of social media can give us some lessons, it should be that there must be someone who takes control of the social platform and should be accountable for its impacts on society.

bsdetector 5y ago
That someone who takes control of moderation should be the user. In the past, most USENET was small enough that people maintained their own individual blocklists of bad actors and ignored them. Today, we crowdsource a personal blocklist with EasyList and other lists that users opt into. The only centralized or automated moderation any media needs is to stop bots and spam. If you went to opentube and you had the option to view only "family friendly" videos then even sensitive people could use the site without being offended.
- jiggunjer 5y ago
  Blacklists make sense for news feeds, but whitelists seem more useful for media consumption.
  - bsdetector 5y ago
    The way Minds works is if you miscategorize offensive content as family friendly too many times then your whole account is made NSFW. Offensive videos are not censored, but you have to opt-in to seeing them. The choice is always with the user what type of content they want to see.
dijonman2 5y ago
I disagree, I think o. the surface censorship is appealing but as someone who enjoyed the early days of high speed internet I prefer raw unmoderated content. I’m an adult and can navigate away. The world is a tough place. Pretending that bad stuff doesn’t happen is akin to putting your head in the sand. Should it be front and center? Probably not. But it shouldn’t be “banned”. It’s a slippery slope, moderation can and will be abused. Just look at the reddit zealots.

ekianjo 5y ago

> I was looking at this before and went to https://open.tube/ https://open.tube/ to explore the content to see how the community looked You do realize you picked an instance where the top videos have less than 10 views, don't you? Seems like you just went to cherry pick the worst and the least representative.

summerlight 5y ago
That's another problem. This particular platform actively promotes the worst video, even if it does not accurately represent the community. I must ask: who is accountable of this spectacular moderation failure?
- djbebs 5y ago
  Lack of censorship is not a failure.
- remram 5y ago
  You walked into their house...
- scim-knox-twox 5y ago
  What "moderation failure"?
fullshark 5y ago
I assure you it was due to random chance (i got there after clicking "sita sings the blues" on the main page) and I didn't cherry pick that site. Possibly the tiny number of views was why it was so memorable though as something not gaining traction.

pinephoneguy 5y ago

It's compatible with mastodon which already has a fairly large community (you can follow peertube users and their videos will show up in your feed.) I think this kind of social network absolutely is the future because of how incompatible people's ideas about what is acceptable and what isn't are. If you find an instance who's moderators share your ideals you're good to go. No need to learn a new technology or give up most of your social network even!

amatecha 5y ago

I mean, you chose to browse an instance that describes it self as "a censorship-free Youtube alternative". What did you expect? Browse https://joinpeertube.org/instances https://joinpeertube.org/instances and for the "Sensitive videos" option, choose "Hide". Assuming you may be interested in tech/science, https://tube.tchncs.de/ https://tube.tchncs.de/ is quite a popular instance.

fullshark 5y ago
It wasn’t a conscious choice I think I came across it after clicking the “Sita Sings the Blues” link. Again like mastodon, the various instances are confusing to most people to be honest. But yeah I can see a grassroots instance around some hobby or interest being able to sustain itself.
joe_guy 5y ago
rideontime 5y ago

jbirer 5y ago

People like freedom and lack of censorship until it's a political opinion they don't like, like poetry.

bigbugbag 5y ago

Not sure what you criteria for "real community" is, but AFAIK there are already communities using this technology. The micro-payment as opposed to ads model already exists on third party services such as utip, tipee, onlyfans, etc. and is the main source of revenue for most video content creators. When peertube aware content creators explains why they choose youtube as their main platform the given answer is the large userbase and visibility a.k.a. The network effect and dominant position youtube has. Though twitch and tiktok seems to putting a serious dent as many youtubers turn to twitch for live content and interacting with their communities in a healthier way than youtube where toxicity prevails, and with tiktok for engaging with their communities with shorter videos requirient less effort and escaping the youtube algorithm.