5 ms·

American here, let me spoil it for you: If a cop tries to scan your face, you LET THEM. You do not move, you do not pout, you do not cover your face, you do no

American here, let me spoil it for you: If a cop tries to scan your face, you LET THEM. You do not move, you do not pout, you do not cover your face, you do not duck down into the car, you do not roll up your window. You LET THEM SCAN YOUR FACE. If you are feeling particularly privileged, you may gently, at-most-once, convey (ORALLY ONLY) that you do not wish to be scanned/photographed. Then you fight it like hell with the police department's grievance process, with your local courts, and with your local city/municipal council, who should have budget oversight to the police force. Headlines like this get people killed. Seriously.

fivestarman 5y ago
The headline "what to do if a cop tries to scan your face during a traffic stop", is going to get people killed? The only recommendations in the article are to "verbally tell an officer that they do not consent to have their biometrics collected." and "People also have the legal right to record a police officer with their own phone".
- pjc50 5y ago
  > "People also have the legal right to record a police officer with their own phone". People have been shot dead for reaching into their center console or glovebox. So you'd better think very carefully about how you're getting your phone out.
908B64B197 5y ago
- inter_netuser 5y ago
  Besides, can't they just take you to station and take fingerprints to verify identity? Pretty sure that's an option.
  - sgjohnson 5y ago
    Depends on the circumstances, but not really.
    - inter_netuser 5y ago
      just ask to be arrested. i guess they can cuff you and scan your face anyway then. but maybe not.
  - xfitm3 5y ago
    Only if they have your prints to begin with.
    - mc32 5y ago
      If you are the driver, they collect your prints at license issuance.
      - mrguyorama 5y ago
        This depends on the state. Maine does not have my prints on file
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- closeparen 5y ago
  Your rights entitle you to relief in court, not to engage in street fights with law enforcement.
  - ALittleLight 5y ago
    Depending on the circumstances your rights absolutely entitle you to engage in street fights with the police. It may not be wise, but you can do it legally (in some circumstances). A couple of famous cases come to mind - Tupac, the rapper, was once driving down the street when he witnessed two police officers beating up a random guy. He grabbed his gun and engaged in a brief gun fight with the police. Completely justified at court. Randy Weaver, at Ruby Ridge, was ambushed by federal marshals. In a gunfight he shot and killed a marshal and successfully argued it was justified at court. You can legally fight and kill the police in some circumstances. It's dangerous, and you'd better be sure you're in the right, but it is legal. (I'm also emphatically not saying you'd be justified in fighting the police over a face scan)
jterrys 5y ago
I think a lot of rebellious sentiment in this thread comes from a position of privilege. If you've ever interacted with cops when they have their kid gloves off, you know. You don't fuck with them. You do what they say. Because unless you have your own verifiable proof of whats going on, it will always be their word over yours. And even with your proof... even that isn't enough for the courts sometimes. If you want to improve your odds get a dash cam that records the road and yourself, with audio. Have the cop on video, and preferably some way to upload video footage so they can't just confiscate your SD card when their bodycams 'fail' as they violate your rights.
- Spivak 5y ago
  Also because it really doesn’t matter if you were in the right if you’re dead.
anm89 5y ago
Hyperbolic much? you could also say "no, I would like to speak with your supervisor and understand the department policy on this before allowing it." if you are at a traffic stop and nothing has escalated you can absolutely communicate with police like this effectively. in your scenario this is where i guess they pull out their dual wielded grenade launchers and kill your family but in reality this is likely to be the part where they decide its not worth it unless they are on very firm ground and write you a ticket and drive off. I find this whole attitude to be bizarre and kind of creepy.
sorethescore 5y ago
- nisegami 5y ago
  No one said anything about justifying it.
- pempem 5y ago
  This is what I don't understand: - I agree with your frustration and stance - I am prone to think "Wow, people are really scared of the police. Why?" not "oh clearly they just love authority". You can find the latter to the be result of literal deaths at the hands of the cops for no reason, little reason, and always little recourse. These stories are available at the tiniest google search. You could also find it to be the result of cop propaganda. This note though, fully not useful, not a value-add.
robbywashere_ 5y ago
>Headlines like this get people killed. Seriously. It's amazing we have gotten to this point where any wrong move in front of a cop is more dangerous to the public than any danger the perpetrator of a traffic violation could impose. Honest question, statistically who is more likely to die in a traffic stop? Police or the suspect?
- pempem 5y ago
  Honest perception. The stopped person is more likely to die. Even when they are the 'suspect' of more than a traffic stop.
gamblor956 5y ago
The top post is the kind of over-the-top comment that comes from a position of privilege of someone who has clearly never actually had to deal with law enforcement in a situation like this before. I have, as a lawyer, and as a regular civilian interacting with the police. You do not have to let the cops scan your face. Refusing to be searched, or scanned, or taken to the station will not get you killed. It will not get you beat up. It will not get you sent to jail. In fact, if you consent to letting them scan your face, (or search you or your belongings, etc) there won't be a "grievance process," there won't be a pot of gold, there won't be a voided conviction (if they found anything)...because you consented. Comments like the OPs get people in trouble. Seriously.
- Spivak 5y ago
  You’re talking about two different things and you’re both right. You should absolutely assert your rights and refuse any scans, searches, what have you. HOWEVER if the officer doesn’t honor your refusal and does it anyway you risk death by doing anything that obstructs them even if technically you have the right to.
  - gamblor956 5y ago
    does it anyway you risk death by doing anything that obstructs them. This is simply FUD being spread by someone who knows absolutely nothing about what he's talking about. Police in the U.S. aren't all like the ones you "see on TV." That's the 0.1% of the bad cops being used to define all cops. Unless you're okay with everyone thinking that all programmers are sacks of shit because of the 0.1% that are cryptocurrency scam artists?
franga2000 5y ago
Nobody here is saying you should try and prevent them - we know how fucking insane US cops are. But if you don't say anything, your chances of successfully suing or at least getting erased from their database afterwards are way lower. Saying "I won't resist, but I do not consent to my face being scanned" while holding your hands in a visible position won't increase your chance of being shot unless it's already so high you're basically dead anyways. Also, please record everything. Put a voice activated recorder on your phone so you don't get shot when reaching for it (didn't Siri have that built in at some point) and have recordings synced to the cloud, have a dashcam or better a 360° cam always running, hide a digital audio recorder in the dash - or even better use an old smartphone on a modest data plan... I know not everyone can afford to do that, but if you can, you should. Especially if you're in a group that gets targeted often, this is the best thing you can do to make sure these fuckers are held accountable if they do something illegal or worse.

fivestarman 5y ago

The headline "what to do if a cop tries to scan your face during a traffic stop", is going to get people killed? The only recommendations in the article are to "verbally tell an officer that they do not consent to have their biometrics collected." and "People also have the legal right to record a police officer with their own phone".

pjc50 5y ago
> "People also have the legal right to record a police officer with their own phone". People have been shot dead for reaching into their center console or glovebox. So you'd better think very carefully about how you're getting your phone out.

908B64B197 5y ago

inter_netuser 5y ago
Besides, can't they just take you to station and take fingerprints to verify identity? Pretty sure that's an option.
- sgjohnson 5y ago
  Depends on the circumstances, but not really.
  - inter_netuser 5y ago
    just ask to be arrested. i guess they can cuff you and scan your face anyway then. but maybe not.
- xfitm3 5y ago
  Only if they have your prints to begin with.
  - mc32 5y ago
    If you are the driver, they collect your prints at license issuance.
    - mrguyorama 5y ago
      This depends on the state. Maine does not have my prints on file
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
closeparen 5y ago
Your rights entitle you to relief in court, not to engage in street fights with law enforcement.
- ALittleLight 5y ago
  Depending on the circumstances your rights absolutely entitle you to engage in street fights with the police. It may not be wise, but you can do it legally (in some circumstances). A couple of famous cases come to mind - Tupac, the rapper, was once driving down the street when he witnessed two police officers beating up a random guy. He grabbed his gun and engaged in a brief gun fight with the police. Completely justified at court. Randy Weaver, at Ruby Ridge, was ambushed by federal marshals. In a gunfight he shot and killed a marshal and successfully argued it was justified at court. You can legally fight and kill the police in some circumstances. It's dangerous, and you'd better be sure you're in the right, but it is legal. (I'm also emphatically not saying you'd be justified in fighting the police over a face scan)

jterrys 5y ago

I think a lot of rebellious sentiment in this thread comes from a position of privilege. If you've ever interacted with cops when they have their kid gloves off, you know. You don't fuck with them. You do what they say. Because unless you have your own verifiable proof of whats going on, it will always be their word over yours. And even with your proof... even that isn't enough for the courts sometimes. If you want to improve your odds get a dash cam that records the road and yourself, with audio. Have the cop on video, and preferably some way to upload video footage so they can't just confiscate your SD card when their bodycams 'fail' as they violate your rights.

Spivak 5y ago
Also because it really doesn’t matter if you were in the right if you’re dead.

anm89 5y ago

Hyperbolic much? you could also say "no, I would like to speak with your supervisor and understand the department policy on this before allowing it." if you are at a traffic stop and nothing has escalated you can absolutely communicate with police like this effectively. in your scenario this is where i guess they pull out their dual wielded grenade launchers and kill your family but in reality this is likely to be the part where they decide its not worth it unless they are on very firm ground and write you a ticket and drive off. I find this whole attitude to be bizarre and kind of creepy.

sorethescore 5y ago

nisegami 5y ago
No one said anything about justifying it.
pempem 5y ago
This is what I don't understand: - I agree with your frustration and stance - I am prone to think "Wow, people are really scared of the police. Why?" not "oh clearly they just love authority". You can find the latter to the be result of literal deaths at the hands of the cops for no reason, little reason, and always little recourse. These stories are available at the tiniest google search. You could also find it to be the result of cop propaganda. This note though, fully not useful, not a value-add.

robbywashere_ 5y ago

>Headlines like this get people killed. Seriously. It's amazing we have gotten to this point where any wrong move in front of a cop is more dangerous to the public than any danger the perpetrator of a traffic violation could impose. Honest question, statistically who is more likely to die in a traffic stop? Police or the suspect?

pempem 5y ago
Honest perception. The stopped person is more likely to die. Even when they are the 'suspect' of more than a traffic stop.

gamblor956 5y ago

The top post is the kind of over-the-top comment that comes from a position of privilege of someone who has clearly never actually had to deal with law enforcement in a situation like this before. I have, as a lawyer, and as a regular civilian interacting with the police. You do not have to let the cops scan your face. Refusing to be searched, or scanned, or taken to the station will not get you killed. It will not get you beat up. It will not get you sent to jail. In fact, if you consent to letting them scan your face, (or search you or your belongings, etc) there won't be a "grievance process," there won't be a pot of gold, there won't be a voided conviction (if they found anything)...because you consented. Comments like the OPs get people in trouble. Seriously.

Spivak 5y ago
You’re talking about two different things and you’re both right. You should absolutely assert your rights and refuse any scans, searches, what have you. HOWEVER if the officer doesn’t honor your refusal and does it anyway you risk death by doing anything that obstructs them even if technically you have the right to.
- gamblor956 5y ago
  does it anyway you risk death by doing anything that obstructs them. This is simply FUD being spread by someone who knows absolutely nothing about what he's talking about. Police in the U.S. aren't all like the ones you "see on TV." That's the 0.1% of the bad cops being used to define all cops. Unless you're okay with everyone thinking that all programmers are sacks of shit because of the 0.1% that are cryptocurrency scam artists?

franga2000 5y ago

Nobody here is saying you should try and prevent them - we know how fucking insane US cops are. But if you don't say anything, your chances of successfully suing or at least getting erased from their database afterwards are way lower. Saying "I won't resist, but I do not consent to my face being scanned" while holding your hands in a visible position won't increase your chance of being shot unless it's already so high you're basically dead anyways. Also, please record everything. Put a voice activated recorder on your phone so you don't get shot when reaching for it (didn't Siri have that built in at some point) and have recordings synced to the cloud, have a dashcam or better a 360° cam always running, hide a digital audio recorder in the dash - or even better use an old smartphone on a modest data plan... I know not everyone can afford to do that, but if you can, you should. Especially if you're in a group that gets targeted often, this is the best thing you can do to make sure these fuckers are held accountable if they do something illegal or worse.