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> who knows if there's sidewalks? Living in Europe this question doesn't compute at all. Such a foreign idea to even contemplate. If it doesn't have a sidewalk

> who knows if there's sidewalks? Living in Europe this question doesn't compute at all. Such a foreign idea to even contemplate. If it doesn't have a sidewalk, it must be a country road or a highway right? Couldn't happen in a reasonably densely populated area...?

reaperducer 5y ago
What a strange thing to read. I've been to dozens and dozens of urban places in Europe that have streets without sidewalks. Or in many of the places, the sidewalks exist, but are useless because cars are allowed to park on them. I've never understood how people in wheelchairs are able to get anywhere in most of "civilized" Europe.
- GordonS 5y ago
  I've been all over Europe, and I think the only places I've seen streets without pavements (sidewalks) is in historic town centres.
  - kelnos 5y ago
    I think it's a little weird to reply to a counter-example with, essentially, "well I've never seen that, so it must not be a big deal".
  - black_puppydog 5y ago
    Jup. And these historic town centers are increasingly pedestrianized anyhow. so technically they're all sidewalk and no space for cars. :P
uoaei 5y ago
One word: stroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad USA seems to be unique in the case that they think this design constitutes a finished product. Edit: the Not Just Bikes youtube channel has great content regarding contemporary urban planning. Here's their video about stroads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM
- standardUser 5y ago
  To be fair, Latin America has it far worse in terms of lack of sidewalks, even in wealthier urban areas.
  - ggm 5y ago
    Kuala Lumpur is waving at you. Some of the best beef-broth noodle meals I've had there were sitting on crates next to Jersey Kerb, which was between me and a 6 lane highway of chaos.
bluGill 5y ago
Sidewalks went out of style in the 1960s, and a trend that started reversing around 2000. Developers have learned that people like sidewalks and do use them so they are building them again to attract people to build on their lots. That said, the purpose of said sidewalks is to exercise your dog, or let your kids ride their bikes around. They often don't connect up to anything in a useful way (other than nearby parks and maybe elementary schools - but only if they are very close)
- johannes1234321 5y ago
  > They often don't connect up to anything in a useful way (other than nearby parks and maybe elementary schools - but only if they are very close) What should it connect to? Thanks to zoning there is no Café you can go to or a small supermarket or anything else in the vicinity. Not even public transport which then might bring you elsewhere.
- yardie 5y ago
  Sidewalks went out of fashion because developers thought they took away property sq footage. So a 5000sqft SFH lot became 4800 sqft. But then homeowners realized if kids don’t have sidewalks they’ll play in the streets. If they could get away with it developers would drop sidewalks completely. It’s only because cities and towns started mandating it that they became fashionable again.
  - throwaway0a5e 5y ago
    >But then homeowners realized if kids don’t have sidewalks they’ll play in the streets. Which was considered fine at the time and depending on where you live is still fine.
    - bluGill 5y ago
      In most suburban streets it would still be fine. Though parents are more paranoid than in 1960. However suburbs need buys roads all over (many are stroads, but the fact of car living means you need busy roads to get around)
cafard 5y ago
I have read that some developers deliberately omitted sidewalks in order to produce the impression of being out in the country--though given the closeness of the houses, the impression must have been pretty vague. There is a little wedge of Washington, DC, bounded by Oregon Avenue, Western Avenue, and Chestnut St, called "Hawthorne". I used to run through and see signs reading "No Sidewalks in Hawthorne", after a while varied by signs says "Yes, Sidewalks in Hawthorne", but probably fewer. I suppose that this is six miles from the White House by air line, probably seven by road. (And now there are sidewalks in Hawthorne, at least a few.)
exabrial 5y ago
Your shock is reasonable :) most midwestern US States are the size of most European countries, but with 1/10-1/100 of the population. Bentonville/Fayetteville are pretty well off the beaten path, both previously being farm communities, though Bentonville was also a trade hub in the western frotier days. Bentonville is famous from being Walmart's headquarters, which is sort of crazy given how tiny the town is. Fayetteville has a fairly large college. The two cities have really only seen extraordinary prosperity in recent years, so there's not a lot of extra money to spend on stuff that's not always needed, given their history.

reaperducer 5y ago

What a strange thing to read. I've been to dozens and dozens of urban places in Europe that have streets without sidewalks. Or in many of the places, the sidewalks exist, but are useless because cars are allowed to park on them. I've never understood how people in wheelchairs are able to get anywhere in most of "civilized" Europe.

GordonS 5y ago
I've been all over Europe, and I think the only places I've seen streets without pavements (sidewalks) is in historic town centres.
- kelnos 5y ago
  I think it's a little weird to reply to a counter-example with, essentially, "well I've never seen that, so it must not be a big deal".
- black_puppydog 5y ago
  Jup. And these historic town centers are increasingly pedestrianized anyhow. so technically they're all sidewalk and no space for cars. :P

uoaei 5y ago

One word: stroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad USA seems to be unique in the case that they think this design constitutes a finished product. Edit: the Not Just Bikes youtube channel has great content regarding contemporary urban planning. Here's their video about stroads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM

standardUser 5y ago
To be fair, Latin America has it far worse in terms of lack of sidewalks, even in wealthier urban areas.
- ggm 5y ago
  Kuala Lumpur is waving at you. Some of the best beef-broth noodle meals I've had there were sitting on crates next to Jersey Kerb, which was between me and a 6 lane highway of chaos.

bluGill 5y ago

Sidewalks went out of style in the 1960s, and a trend that started reversing around 2000. Developers have learned that people like sidewalks and do use them so they are building them again to attract people to build on their lots. That said, the purpose of said sidewalks is to exercise your dog, or let your kids ride their bikes around. They often don't connect up to anything in a useful way (other than nearby parks and maybe elementary schools - but only if they are very close)

johannes1234321 5y ago
> They often don't connect up to anything in a useful way (other than nearby parks and maybe elementary schools - but only if they are very close) What should it connect to? Thanks to zoning there is no Café you can go to or a small supermarket or anything else in the vicinity. Not even public transport which then might bring you elsewhere.
yardie 5y ago
Sidewalks went out of fashion because developers thought they took away property sq footage. So a 5000sqft SFH lot became 4800 sqft. But then homeowners realized if kids don’t have sidewalks they’ll play in the streets. If they could get away with it developers would drop sidewalks completely. It’s only because cities and towns started mandating it that they became fashionable again.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago
  >But then homeowners realized if kids don’t have sidewalks they’ll play in the streets. Which was considered fine at the time and depending on where you live is still fine.
  - bluGill 5y ago
    In most suburban streets it would still be fine. Though parents are more paranoid than in 1960. However suburbs need buys roads all over (many are stroads, but the fact of car living means you need busy roads to get around)

cafard 5y ago

I have read that some developers deliberately omitted sidewalks in order to produce the impression of being out in the country--though given the closeness of the houses, the impression must have been pretty vague. There is a little wedge of Washington, DC, bounded by Oregon Avenue, Western Avenue, and Chestnut St, called "Hawthorne". I used to run through and see signs reading "No Sidewalks in Hawthorne", after a while varied by signs says "Yes, Sidewalks in Hawthorne", but probably fewer. I suppose that this is six miles from the White House by air line, probably seven by road. (And now there are sidewalks in Hawthorne, at least a few.)

exabrial 5y ago

Your shock is reasonable :) most midwestern US States are the size of most European countries, but with 1/10-1/100 of the population. Bentonville/Fayetteville are pretty well off the beaten path, both previously being farm communities, though Bentonville was also a trade hub in the western frotier days. Bentonville is famous from being Walmart's headquarters, which is sort of crazy given how tiny the town is. Fayetteville has a fairly large college. The two cities have really only seen extraordinary prosperity in recent years, so there's not a lot of extra money to spend on stuff that's not always needed, given their history.