10 ms·
Having lived in Bentonville, the trails are absolutely meaningless if there aren't sidewalks off the trail with which to get to final destinations. I was a ped
by xerox13ster 5y ago
Having lived in Bentonville, the trails are absolutely meaningless if there aren't sidewalks off the trail with which to get to final destinations.
I was a pedestrian cyclist there from 2017-2020 and I frequently was walking or riding in the roads or ditches when the sidewalk ran out. Sure, I could get across town, but when I get there, who knows if there's sidewalks?
If I wanted to go grocery shopping and be on a sidewalk/bike trail, I had to go an extra mile out of my way to go under the overpass and through the community college to get to neighborhood market. That trip was already a mile if I rode along the road, so double the distance. That's not making cycling a first class citizen! That's hiding cyclists from cars who are the real first class citizen. I know, I grew up there.
Fayetteville and Rogers get this right(ish), Bentonville wants to pretend they have it right so talent will move there for Walmart after Walmart spent decades making sure brain drain was inevitable by keeping the area "small town" (they bragged about this during my corporate orientation) and fighting density that could have naturally precipitated good pedestrian and biking infrastructure.
And the separate bike lanes through the woods are not some grand way to make cycling first class they are NECESSARY or the rural drivers who come into the "city" would be playing chicken games and trying to run cyclists off the road. When I grew up this was a common thing to joke about!
- black_puppydog 5y ago> who knows if there's sidewalks? Living in Europe this question doesn't compute at all. Such a foreign idea to even contemplate. If it doesn't have a sidewalk, it must be a country road or a highway right? Couldn't happen in a reasonably densely populated area...?
- reaperducer 5y agoWhat a strange thing to read. I've been to dozens and dozens of urban places in Europe that have streets without sidewalks. Or in many of the places, the sidewalks exist, but are useless because cars are allowed to park on them. I've never understood how people in wheelchairs are able to get anywhere in most of "civilized" Europe.
- GordonS 5y agoI've been all over Europe, and I think the only places I've seen streets without pavements (sidewalks) is in historic town centres.
- kelnos 5y agoI think it's a little weird to reply to a counter-example with, essentially, "well I've never seen that, so it must not be a big deal".
- black_puppydog 5y agoJup. And these historic town centers are increasingly pedestrianized anyhow. so technically they're all sidewalk and no space for cars. :P
- uoaei 5y agoOne word: stroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroad USA seems to be unique in the case that they think this design constitutes a finished product. Edit: the Not Just Bikes youtube channel has great content regarding contemporary urban planning. Here's their video about stroads https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORzNZUeUHAM
- standardUser 5y agoTo be fair, Latin America has it far worse in terms of lack of sidewalks, even in wealthier urban areas.
- ggm 5y agoKuala Lumpur is waving at you. Some of the best beef-broth noodle meals I've had there were sitting on crates next to Jersey Kerb, which was between me and a 6 lane highway of chaos.
- bluGill 5y agoSidewalks went out of style in the 1960s, and a trend that started reversing around 2000. Developers have learned that people like sidewalks and do use them so they are building them again to attract people to build on their lots. That said, the purpose of said sidewalks is to exercise your dog, or let your kids ride their bikes around. They often don't connect up to anything in a useful way (other than nearby parks and maybe elementary schools - but only if they are very close)
- johannes1234321 5y ago> They often don't connect up to anything in a useful way (other than nearby parks and maybe elementary schools - but only if they are very close) What should it connect to? Thanks to zoning there is no Café you can go to or a small supermarket or anything else in the vicinity. Not even public transport which then might bring you elsewhere.
- yardie 5y agoSidewalks went out of fashion because developers thought they took away property sq footage. So a 5000sqft SFH lot became 4800 sqft. But then homeowners realized if kids don’t have sidewalks they’ll play in the streets. If they could get away with it developers would drop sidewalks completely. It’s only because cities and towns started mandating it that they became fashionable again.
- throwaway0a5e 5y ago>But then homeowners realized if kids don’t have sidewalks they’ll play in the streets. Which was considered fine at the time and depending on where you live is still fine.
- bluGill 5y agoIn most suburban streets it would still be fine. Though parents are more paranoid than in 1960. However suburbs need buys roads all over (many are stroads, but the fact of car living means you need busy roads to get around)
- cafard 5y agoI have read that some developers deliberately omitted sidewalks in order to produce the impression of being out in the country--though given the closeness of the houses, the impression must have been pretty vague. There is a little wedge of Washington, DC, bounded by Oregon Avenue, Western Avenue, and Chestnut St, called "Hawthorne". I used to run through and see signs reading "No Sidewalks in Hawthorne", after a while varied by signs says "Yes, Sidewalks in Hawthorne", but probably fewer. I suppose that this is six miles from the White House by air line, probably seven by road. (And now there are sidewalks in Hawthorne, at least a few.)
- exabrial 5y agoYour shock is reasonable :) most midwestern US States are the size of most European countries, but with 1/10-1/100 of the population. Bentonville/Fayetteville are pretty well off the beaten path, both previously being farm communities, though Bentonville was also a trade hub in the western frotier days. Bentonville is famous from being Walmart's headquarters, which is sort of crazy given how tiny the town is. Fayetteville has a fairly large college. The two cities have really only seen extraordinary prosperity in recent years, so there's not a lot of extra money to spend on stuff that's not always needed, given their history.
- Spooky23 5y agoIt’s a big deal because it’s shovel ready for improvements. When the Feds someday allocate billions to bike infrastructure, they’ll get the sidewalks, etc. Imo securing rights of way that can be a framework for a future system is key.
- tdhz77 5y agoFound the person that worked at Walmart.
- mikestew 5y agoGood job! But if OP hadn't mentioned in their comment that they worked at Walmart, would you have still figured it out?