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I don't believe that anymore after the 737-Max incident (Downfall on Netflix is good btw). The FAA serves Boeing -- and no one else right now.

by bb88 5y ago

sokoloff 5y ago
I watched Downfall and I have to say that while they technically avoided lying about the actions of the EA302 crew, the storyline they presented doesn’t match the flight data recorder data. Downfall says “the crew knew about the MCAS risk, figured out they had an MCAS fault, applied Boeing’s checklist response, and still the airplane crashed”. All four of those things are independent and true facts. What is omitted (and readily available to the filmmakers) is that EA302’s thrust setting remained inappropriately high (94% N1, takeoff thrust), causing an excessive airspeed, causing the crew to be unable to return the stabilizer to a normal trim setting by hand after using the electric cutout, which led them to the (correct) conclusion that they should turn the electric stab trim back on and command aircraft-nose-up via the electric system, which they did. That means that they undid the checklist response. Then, after doing that successfully for a short period of time, they stopped commanding nose-up trim and left the stab trim powered up (contravening the checklist), allowing MCAS to continue to command the fatal nose down trim. So they got dealt an emergency situation and the airplane crashed. Boeing has some blame here, but Downfall’s presentation of the events as the crew responding correctly with Boeing’s checklist would make most politicians blush and worry they’d be caught lying.
- bb88 5y ago
  If you believe that MCAS caused the first and contributed to the second, like I do, then at what point does the FAA not step in? You could say Gravity contributed I guess to both crashes, and Boeing is not responsible for that, but the difference here is that Boeing deliberately hid the existence of MCAS to the pilots to avoid simulator training.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I think it's fair to say that MCAS caused both crashes. I think it's inaccurate/unfair to present the EA302 crew as having executed flawlessly (as Downfall presents it). They had elements of excellent airmanship; they also had flaws in their execution of that flight which, if avoided, would have likely been enough to save the flight.

I don't believe that anymore after the 737-Max incident (Downfall on Netflix is good btw). The FAA serves Boeing -- and no one else right now.

by bb88 5y ago

I don't believe that anymore after the 737-Max incident (Downfall on Netflix is good btw). The FAA serves Boeing -- and no one else right now.

sokoloff 5y ago

I watched Downfall and I have to say that while they technically avoided lying about the actions of the EA302 crew, the storyline they presented doesn’t match the flight data recorder data. Downfall says “the crew knew about the MCAS risk, figured out they had an MCAS fault, applied Boeing’s checklist response, and still the airplane crashed”. All four of those things are independent and true facts. What is omitted (and readily available to the filmmakers) is that EA302’s thrust setting remained inappropriately high (94% N1, takeoff thrust), causing an excessive airspeed, causing the crew to be unable to return the stabilizer to a normal trim setting by hand after using the electric cutout, which led them to the (correct) conclusion that they should turn the electric stab trim back on and command aircraft-nose-up via the electric system, which they did. That means that they undid the checklist response. Then, after doing that successfully for a short period of time, they stopped commanding nose-up trim and left the stab trim powered up (contravening the checklist), allowing MCAS to continue to command the fatal nose down trim. So they got dealt an emergency situation and the airplane crashed. Boeing has some blame here, but Downfall’s presentation of the events as the crew responding correctly with Boeing’s checklist would make most politicians blush and worry they’d be caught lying.

bb88 5y ago
If you believe that MCAS caused the first and contributed to the second, like I do, then at what point does the FAA not step in? You could say Gravity contributed I guess to both crashes, and Boeing is not responsible for that, but the difference here is that Boeing deliberately hid the existence of MCAS to the pilots to avoid simulator training.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I think it's fair to say that MCAS caused both crashes. I think it's inaccurate/unfair to present the EA302 crew as having executed flawlessly (as Downfall presents it). They had elements of excellent airmanship; they also had flaws in their execution of that flight which, if avoided, would have likely been enough to save the flight.