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I hate the hype. I like honesty, pros vs cons. Rust community seems full of zealots and evangelists. Those people are very vocal about pros, and condescending.

I hate the hype. I like honesty, pros vs cons. Rust community seems full of zealots and evangelists. Those people are very vocal about pros, and condescending. As soon as someone brings any con or isn’t convinced, they are just bad programmers, with bad arguments, and even « embarrassingly flimsy » criticism…

mustache_kimono 5y ago
Re: the hype, I don't know what language you use without hype behind it, but what I say is -- there are worse things than a little hype. Java had millions of dollars poured into a marketing campaign, and it has done pretty well for itself. Rust's hype is mostly grassroots, and, from my perspective, the excitement behind Rust is reasonably well-justified for many software domains. Again, you should feel free to disagree. I guess what I'd say is that your experience has not been my experience. And I'll keep an eye out for you on the forums if you want to discuss Rust!
- qsdf38100 5y ago
  What about honest hype? I would tend to believe there could be such a thing. Maybe it doesn't make sense. Let me try. "Rust offers strong memory safety guarantees without the usual runtime overhead of memory safe languages. Ease of development tend to suffer, but it's the best choice when both security and performance are crucial." Not sure I convinced my self here. But yeah, something like that.
  - mustache_kimono 5y ago
    I think hype is just something we live with. And I think that the anti-hype hate is just as annoying as the hype train. Although I'd disagree re: ease of development, because it's highly subjective and depends on your use, I would agree that it's wrong for some to characterize Rust as a floor wax and a dessert topping. It's really good for lots of things and less good/still growing for others.
  - Yoric 5y ago
    As someone who uses Rust daily, I actually find that my ease of development increases wrt Python or JavaScript. I spend less time writing tests for silly edge cases because I can easily make sure that these edge cases can't happen, less time wondering whether I really have covered all bases, less time recovering from crashes in staging environments (or, in at least one case, in production) caused by me failing to cover all bases. Doesn't mean that we all share the same definition of "ease of development" or that your ease of development would similarly improve – it might very well suffer, depending on the specific pain points that you're up against. So may I suggest rephrasing "ease of development tend to suffer" into "learning curve may be harsh"? Incidentally, I don't think you'll find much hype in the core Rust community. This community has always been very honest about what Rust does well, what Rust doesn't do so well, and what Rust isn't good at at all. I found this refreshing because I never quite saw so much honesty in, well, any other community, I guess.
  - dralley 5y ago
    I think that is a fair summary, but if I can speak for why I personally enjoy Rust, it's because I don't find >Ease of development tend to suffer to be true. I'm sure it is true in certain contexts, such as building certain types of data structures, or making GUIs, but for normal day-to-day development work it feels like I'm getting performance, security, and ease of development.

mustache_kimono 5y ago

Re: the hype, I don't know what language you use without hype behind it, but what I say is -- there are worse things than a little hype. Java had millions of dollars poured into a marketing campaign, and it has done pretty well for itself. Rust's hype is mostly grassroots, and, from my perspective, the excitement behind Rust is reasonably well-justified for many software domains. Again, you should feel free to disagree. I guess what I'd say is that your experience has not been my experience. And I'll keep an eye out for you on the forums if you want to discuss Rust!

qsdf38100 5y ago
What about honest hype? I would tend to believe there could be such a thing. Maybe it doesn't make sense. Let me try. "Rust offers strong memory safety guarantees without the usual runtime overhead of memory safe languages. Ease of development tend to suffer, but it's the best choice when both security and performance are crucial." Not sure I convinced my self here. But yeah, something like that.
- mustache_kimono 5y ago
  I think hype is just something we live with. And I think that the anti-hype hate is just as annoying as the hype train. Although I'd disagree re: ease of development, because it's highly subjective and depends on your use, I would agree that it's wrong for some to characterize Rust as a floor wax and a dessert topping. It's really good for lots of things and less good/still growing for others.
- Yoric 5y ago
  As someone who uses Rust daily, I actually find that my ease of development increases wrt Python or JavaScript. I spend less time writing tests for silly edge cases because I can easily make sure that these edge cases can't happen, less time wondering whether I really have covered all bases, less time recovering from crashes in staging environments (or, in at least one case, in production) caused by me failing to cover all bases. Doesn't mean that we all share the same definition of "ease of development" or that your ease of development would similarly improve – it might very well suffer, depending on the specific pain points that you're up against. So may I suggest rephrasing "ease of development tend to suffer" into "learning curve may be harsh"? Incidentally, I don't think you'll find much hype in the core Rust community. This community has always been very honest about what Rust does well, what Rust doesn't do so well, and what Rust isn't good at at all. I found this refreshing because I never quite saw so much honesty in, well, any other community, I guess.
- dralley 5y ago
  I think that is a fair summary, but if I can speak for why I personally enjoy Rust, it's because I don't find >Ease of development tend to suffer to be true. I'm sure it is true in certain contexts, such as building certain types of data structures, or making GUIs, but for normal day-to-day development work it feels like I'm getting performance, security, and ease of development.