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> What happens when 2 captured regulators collide? The FCC is more political than the FAA, but the FAA more critical to US economy. As of right now it seems th

> What happens when 2 captured regulators collide? The FCC is more political than the FAA, but the FAA more critical to US economy. As of right now it seems the FAA is winning.

bb88 5y ago
I don't believe that anymore after the 737-Max incident (Downfall on Netflix is good btw). The FAA serves Boeing -- and no one else right now.
- sokoloff 5y ago
  I watched Downfall and I have to say that while they technically avoided lying about the actions of the EA302 crew, the storyline they presented doesn’t match the flight data recorder data. Downfall says “the crew knew about the MCAS risk, figured out they had an MCAS fault, applied Boeing’s checklist response, and still the airplane crashed”. All four of those things are independent and true facts. What is omitted (and readily available to the filmmakers) is that EA302’s thrust setting remained inappropriately high (94% N1, takeoff thrust), causing an excessive airspeed, causing the crew to be unable to return the stabilizer to a normal trim setting by hand after using the electric cutout, which led them to the (correct) conclusion that they should turn the electric stab trim back on and command aircraft-nose-up via the electric system, which they did. That means that they undid the checklist response. Then, after doing that successfully for a short period of time, they stopped commanding nose-up trim and left the stab trim powered up (contravening the checklist), allowing MCAS to continue to command the fatal nose down trim. So they got dealt an emergency situation and the airplane crashed. Boeing has some blame here, but Downfall’s presentation of the events as the crew responding correctly with Boeing’s checklist would make most politicians blush and worry they’d be caught lying.
  - bb88 5y ago
    If you believe that MCAS caused the first and contributed to the second, like I do, then at what point does the FAA not step in? You could say Gravity contributed I guess to both crashes, and Boeing is not responsible for that, but the difference here is that Boeing deliberately hid the existence of MCAS to the pilots to avoid simulator training.
    - sokoloff 5y ago
      I think it's fair to say that MCAS caused both crashes. I think it's inaccurate/unfair to present the EA302 crew as having executed flawlessly (as Downfall presents it). They had elements of excellent airmanship; they also had flaws in their execution of that flight which, if avoided, would have likely been enough to save the flight.
Retric 5y ago
FCC is vastly more important for the US economy than the FAA. FCC covers Cellphones, Radar (Aircraft+Weather), WiFi, Bluetooth, Satellites (GPS+Weather+Communication, etc), Radio, CB, Emergency Services, TV etc all the way out to astronomy. Their mandate further covers interference from both electronic devices like vacuum cleaners and physical structures. Add it up and we are talking a huge chunk of the US economy directly or indirectly involved. Further the FAA is extremely dependent on the FCC, being unable to detect or communicate with aircraft would make air traffic control nearly impossible. They would still be responsible for crash investigations, pilots, aircraft manufacturing etc, but in the worst cast the only way to fly safely would be under clear skies.
- hammock 5y ago
  You are right. Perhaps I should have said more influential over larger chunks of the economy. Less political and more powerful than the FCC.
  - radicaldreamer 5y ago
    Well FAA is a cabinet level agency while the FCC is not
    - Retric 5y ago
      Cabinet level agency isn’t a thing. At the high level org chart you see the FCC but not the FAA. https://www.usgovernmentmanual.gov/ReadLibraryItem.ashx?SFN=Myz95sTyO4rJRM/nhIRwSw==&SF=VHhnJrOeEAnGaa/rtk/JOg== https://www.usgovernmentmanual.gov/ReadLibraryItem.ashx?SFN=... This is because the FAA is under the United States Department of Transportation, while the FCC is an independent agency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Transportation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Tr... To see the difference goto: https://www.usa.gov/branches-of-government https://www.usa.gov/branches-of-government Executive Department Sub-Agencies and Bureaus has FAA. Independent Agencies has FCC. What is and isn’t an independent agency is complicated but the EPA, NASA, FDIC, Federal Reserve System are independent as are less critical agencies like Institute of Museum and Library Services, Peace Corps, and Railroad Retirement Board.

> What happens when 2 captured regulators collide? The FCC is more political than the FAA, but the FAA more critical to US economy. As of right now it seems the FAA is winning.

bb88 5y ago

I don't believe that anymore after the 737-Max incident (Downfall on Netflix is good btw). The FAA serves Boeing -- and no one else right now.

sokoloff 5y ago
I watched Downfall and I have to say that while they technically avoided lying about the actions of the EA302 crew, the storyline they presented doesn’t match the flight data recorder data. Downfall says “the crew knew about the MCAS risk, figured out they had an MCAS fault, applied Boeing’s checklist response, and still the airplane crashed”. All four of those things are independent and true facts. What is omitted (and readily available to the filmmakers) is that EA302’s thrust setting remained inappropriately high (94% N1, takeoff thrust), causing an excessive airspeed, causing the crew to be unable to return the stabilizer to a normal trim setting by hand after using the electric cutout, which led them to the (correct) conclusion that they should turn the electric stab trim back on and command aircraft-nose-up via the electric system, which they did. That means that they undid the checklist response. Then, after doing that successfully for a short period of time, they stopped commanding nose-up trim and left the stab trim powered up (contravening the checklist), allowing MCAS to continue to command the fatal nose down trim. So they got dealt an emergency situation and the airplane crashed. Boeing has some blame here, but Downfall’s presentation of the events as the crew responding correctly with Boeing’s checklist would make most politicians blush and worry they’d be caught lying.
- bb88 5y ago
  If you believe that MCAS caused the first and contributed to the second, like I do, then at what point does the FAA not step in? You could say Gravity contributed I guess to both crashes, and Boeing is not responsible for that, but the difference here is that Boeing deliberately hid the existence of MCAS to the pilots to avoid simulator training.
  - sokoloff 5y ago
    I think it's fair to say that MCAS caused both crashes. I think it's inaccurate/unfair to present the EA302 crew as having executed flawlessly (as Downfall presents it). They had elements of excellent airmanship; they also had flaws in their execution of that flight which, if avoided, would have likely been enough to save the flight.

Retric 5y ago

FCC is vastly more important for the US economy than the FAA. FCC covers Cellphones, Radar (Aircraft+Weather), WiFi, Bluetooth, Satellites (GPS+Weather+Communication, etc), Radio, CB, Emergency Services, TV etc all the way out to astronomy. Their mandate further covers interference from both electronic devices like vacuum cleaners and physical structures. Add it up and we are talking a huge chunk of the US economy directly or indirectly involved. Further the FAA is extremely dependent on the FCC, being unable to detect or communicate with aircraft would make air traffic control nearly impossible. They would still be responsible for crash investigations, pilots, aircraft manufacturing etc, but in the worst cast the only way to fly safely would be under clear skies.

hammock 5y ago
You are right. Perhaps I should have said more influential over larger chunks of the economy. Less political and more powerful than the FCC.
- radicaldreamer 5y ago
  Well FAA is a cabinet level agency while the FCC is not
  - Retric 5y ago
    Cabinet level agency isn’t a thing. At the high level org chart you see the FCC but not the FAA. https://www.usgovernmentmanual.gov/ReadLibraryItem.ashx?SFN=Myz95sTyO4rJRM/nhIRwSw==&SF=VHhnJrOeEAnGaa/rtk/JOg== https://www.usgovernmentmanual.gov/ReadLibraryItem.ashx?SFN=... This is because the FAA is under the United States Department of Transportation, while the FCC is an independent agency. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Transportation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Department_of_Tr... To see the difference goto: https://www.usa.gov/branches-of-government https://www.usa.gov/branches-of-government Executive Department Sub-Agencies and Bureaus has FAA. Independent Agencies has FCC. What is and isn’t an independent agency is complicated but the EPA, NASA, FDIC, Federal Reserve System are independent as are less critical agencies like Institute of Museum and Library Services, Peace Corps, and Railroad Retirement Board.