5 ms·

People with 7-year-old phones are not really a target group a company selling luxury stuff is going to bother optimizing for.

yuliyp 5y ago
United Airlines is not a luxury product.
- dymk 5y ago
  Flying anywhere, period, is a luxury
  - aledalgrande 5y ago
    Flying in NA, with covid, is a luxury. Europe is a different story. Edit: why the downvotes? You can get flights for 50 bucks to go to different countries in Europe.
    - Symbiote 5y ago
      Maybe people don't believe it. The cheapest flight I can see on SouthWest.com is $60, for a 1 hour journey from Atlanta to South Carolina. The cheapest flight with Ryanair from Copenhagen is $9, though it doesn't include checked luggage. It's also an hour. An even cheaper one is Kraków to Eindhoven, 2 hours, $6. There are fewer dates for this price though.
      - addaon 5y ago
        Southwest is not really the equivalent of Ryan. Spirit airlines has plenty of $22.22 flights (for two's-day, I guess), glancing at their page today. This includes e.g. Chicago to Tampa, Texas to NJ, and other flights longer than most European flights.
        Symbiote 5y ago
        Thanks, I hadn't heard of Spirit. They look very much in the style of Ryanair with the garish website. $22 for three hours (Boston-Miami) is priced between the two Ryanair flights, so I expect the "service" is similar. I'm sure the average distance of a flight within Europe is lower than in the USA, since the USA is a bit empty in the middle and Europe has more water in the way, but routes like Scandinavia to the Mediterranean (Stockholm to Zagreb is 3½ hours and $14), or Britain to eastern Europe (London - Cluj, 3 hours $13) aren't far off, and the budget airlines also have flights to tourist destinations in Egypt, Israel, Jordan etc, which are as long as a US coast-to-coast flight.
    - ben_w 5y ago
      I’ve been on a flight between Berlin and London that cost less than an Amtrak return ticket from Davis to Sacramento, and I’ve also been on a multi-day road trip from Davis to Salt Lake City that, while fun, was only a good financial choice due to four people squeezing into a Prius. While I enjoyed camping and seeing bits of the US that foreigners like me don’t normally see, it’s not entirely clear that the difference between that and flying makes flying the luxury.
      - aledalgrande 5y ago
        In general flying is more expensive in NA because of less competition and bigger distances. That's what I noticed when I moved from Europe to here. Now you have to take expensive tests to fly international both ways. That's why I consider it a luxury.
    - stjohnswarts 5y ago
      Downvotes because you seem to think there is something special about flying in Europe? lol. It is a similar size to the US within a reasonable estimation, let alone the whole of NA, which is probably what 3x as big?
  - TillE 5y ago
    I don't know if you're trying to make a point about global living standards (irrelevant) or the non-necessity of air travel (true, but also irrelevant), but the fact is that budget airlines have existed for decades, and are often comparable in price to a bus trip.
    - morcheeba 5y ago
      Flying is far cheaper than Amtrak.
      - gbear605 5y ago
        For a lot of trips, Amtrak is about the same as flying. Looking at a round trip from NYC to Chicago, on the arbitrary dates of March 26 to April 9, Amtrak costs $180 while Kayak shows the cheapest flights at $159. Of course, Amtrak takes much longer (20 hours) but is less hassle, and at that price the flight only lets you take one carry-on while Amtrak lets you bring two checked bags and two carry-ons. Adding checked bags will add $60 for the first and $80 for the second. Amtrak is also better for the environment if that matters to you, and the price difference is about the same as the cost of the carbon offset for the flight. Overall, choosing Amtrak or flying is perfectly reasonable in different situations. Amtrak could definitely be improved a lot though!
        spc476 5y ago
        NYC to Chicago probably has a decent customer base to support that price point. For amusement, try Miami/Seattle via Amtrak. It's possible, since I looked up the route [1]. One week transit time one way, at $2,000 (I don't recall if the price was round trip or just one way). And trying to work on the train was fun (too "swishy" to use the computer: http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.2 http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.2). Totally not worth it for me. Sadly [2]. [1] For reference, I live near Miami (technically, I live in Boca Raton, but Miami is "close enough" at this scale). The company I work for is based in Seattle. I refuse to fly anymore for a variety of reasons. [2] Riding in a private rail car really spoiled travel for me: http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.4 http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.4 But way out of my pay grade.
  - yuliyp 5y ago
    That's somewhat a different definition than the comment I was replying to. There are plenty of people who may want to fly somewhere who aren't going to upgrade their phone to the latest and greatest every two years (which is what the comment above was implying: that since flying is supposedly a 'luxury' item it can be assumed that the customers have the latest and greatest phones).
- bmicraft 5y ago
  Flying often enough to justify even installing the app/getting any benefits from it surely does count as luxury flying though?
  - ben_w 5y ago
    Ideally an app is sufficient low friction that even a really minor quality of life improvement justifies it. Not being an American I have no reason to even be a UA customer let alone install the app, and therefore I don’t know if they’ve achieved this or not.
  - dylan604 5y ago
    Flying that much in anything less than first class is no where near luxury.
thorncorona 5y ago
Perhaps not but everyone saying this is what kills accessibility for those who need it. This is the same argument made by companies to not support deaf/blind people. Requirements are often above average in some dimensions and below average in others. If we optimize for people who are wealthy, always in high bandwidth areas with new phones, etc etc soon we will have left most people behind.
- WJW 5y ago
  > a company selling luxury stuff Leaving people behind is the entire concept of selling luxury stuff though, so I still don't think that the companies will care much.
JohnJamesRambo 5y ago
Why would you ever want to discourage someone from buying what you are selling?
- pgwhalen 5y ago
  When the cost of selling to such a niche group outweighs the revenue, that’s the premise of this thread.
selfhoster11 5y ago
The assumption here is that a luxury-oriented audience would always want the latest phone. I disagree with that. If I'm rich, I might just not care about upgrading because I have better things to do. Or I like this particular 7 year old phone, so I keep it.
jnovek 5y ago
The iPhone is not a luxury product; not in America, anyway. More than half of American smartphones in 2021 were iPhones. The iPhone is price-comparable to its Android contemporaries. The Android downmarket in the U.S. is a minority by a wide margin.
fomine3 5y ago
I don't know why this downvoted. Apple dropped latest iOS support for 5c in 2017. But 5c is most unloved device so not a good sample. It was released at the same time as 5s that introduced ARMv8 by A7. It was the worst time to release it with old chip. I'd pick iPhone SE 16GB in 2017 that's still in support.

yuliyp 5y ago

United Airlines is not a luxury product.

dymk 5y ago
Flying anywhere, period, is a luxury
- aledalgrande 5y ago
  Flying in NA, with covid, is a luxury. Europe is a different story. Edit: why the downvotes? You can get flights for 50 bucks to go to different countries in Europe.
  - Symbiote 5y ago
    Maybe people don't believe it. The cheapest flight I can see on SouthWest.com is $60, for a 1 hour journey from Atlanta to South Carolina. The cheapest flight with Ryanair from Copenhagen is $9, though it doesn't include checked luggage. It's also an hour. An even cheaper one is Kraków to Eindhoven, 2 hours, $6. There are fewer dates for this price though.
    - addaon 5y ago
      Southwest is not really the equivalent of Ryan. Spirit airlines has plenty of $22.22 flights (for two's-day, I guess), glancing at their page today. This includes e.g. Chicago to Tampa, Texas to NJ, and other flights longer than most European flights.
      - Symbiote 5y ago
        Thanks, I hadn't heard of Spirit. They look very much in the style of Ryanair with the garish website. $22 for three hours (Boston-Miami) is priced between the two Ryanair flights, so I expect the "service" is similar. I'm sure the average distance of a flight within Europe is lower than in the USA, since the USA is a bit empty in the middle and Europe has more water in the way, but routes like Scandinavia to the Mediterranean (Stockholm to Zagreb is 3½ hours and $14), or Britain to eastern Europe (London - Cluj, 3 hours $13) aren't far off, and the budget airlines also have flights to tourist destinations in Egypt, Israel, Jordan etc, which are as long as a US coast-to-coast flight.
  - ben_w 5y ago
    I’ve been on a flight between Berlin and London that cost less than an Amtrak return ticket from Davis to Sacramento, and I’ve also been on a multi-day road trip from Davis to Salt Lake City that, while fun, was only a good financial choice due to four people squeezing into a Prius. While I enjoyed camping and seeing bits of the US that foreigners like me don’t normally see, it’s not entirely clear that the difference between that and flying makes flying the luxury.
    - aledalgrande 5y ago
      In general flying is more expensive in NA because of less competition and bigger distances. That's what I noticed when I moved from Europe to here. Now you have to take expensive tests to fly international both ways. That's why I consider it a luxury.
  - stjohnswarts 5y ago
    Downvotes because you seem to think there is something special about flying in Europe? lol. It is a similar size to the US within a reasonable estimation, let alone the whole of NA, which is probably what 3x as big?
- TillE 5y ago
  I don't know if you're trying to make a point about global living standards (irrelevant) or the non-necessity of air travel (true, but also irrelevant), but the fact is that budget airlines have existed for decades, and are often comparable in price to a bus trip.
  - morcheeba 5y ago
    Flying is far cheaper than Amtrak.
    - gbear605 5y ago
      For a lot of trips, Amtrak is about the same as flying. Looking at a round trip from NYC to Chicago, on the arbitrary dates of March 26 to April 9, Amtrak costs $180 while Kayak shows the cheapest flights at $159. Of course, Amtrak takes much longer (20 hours) but is less hassle, and at that price the flight only lets you take one carry-on while Amtrak lets you bring two checked bags and two carry-ons. Adding checked bags will add $60 for the first and $80 for the second. Amtrak is also better for the environment if that matters to you, and the price difference is about the same as the cost of the carbon offset for the flight. Overall, choosing Amtrak or flying is perfectly reasonable in different situations. Amtrak could definitely be improved a lot though!
      - spc476 5y ago
        NYC to Chicago probably has a decent customer base to support that price point. For amusement, try Miami/Seattle via Amtrak. It's possible, since I looked up the route [1]. One week transit time one way, at $2,000 (I don't recall if the price was round trip or just one way). And trying to work on the train was fun (too "swishy" to use the computer: http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.2 http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.2). Totally not worth it for me. Sadly [2]. [1] For reference, I live near Miami (technically, I live in Boca Raton, but Miami is "close enough" at this scale). The company I work for is based in Seattle. I refuse to fly anymore for a variety of reasons. [2] Riding in a private rail car really spoiled travel for me: http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.4 http://boston.conman.org/2015/08/05.4 But way out of my pay grade.
- yuliyp 5y ago
  That's somewhat a different definition than the comment I was replying to. There are plenty of people who may want to fly somewhere who aren't going to upgrade their phone to the latest and greatest every two years (which is what the comment above was implying: that since flying is supposedly a 'luxury' item it can be assumed that the customers have the latest and greatest phones).
bmicraft 5y ago
Flying often enough to justify even installing the app/getting any benefits from it surely does count as luxury flying though?
- ben_w 5y ago
  Ideally an app is sufficient low friction that even a really minor quality of life improvement justifies it. Not being an American I have no reason to even be a UA customer let alone install the app, and therefore I don’t know if they’ve achieved this or not.
- dylan604 5y ago
  Flying that much in anything less than first class is no where near luxury.

thorncorona 5y ago

Perhaps not but everyone saying this is what kills accessibility for those who need it. This is the same argument made by companies to not support deaf/blind people. Requirements are often above average in some dimensions and below average in others. If we optimize for people who are wealthy, always in high bandwidth areas with new phones, etc etc soon we will have left most people behind.

WJW 5y ago
> a company selling luxury stuff Leaving people behind is the entire concept of selling luxury stuff though, so I still don't think that the companies will care much.

JohnJamesRambo 5y ago

Why would you ever want to discourage someone from buying what you are selling?

pgwhalen 5y ago
When the cost of selling to such a niche group outweighs the revenue, that’s the premise of this thread.

selfhoster11 5y ago

The assumption here is that a luxury-oriented audience would always want the latest phone. I disagree with that. If I'm rich, I might just not care about upgrading because I have better things to do. Or I like this particular 7 year old phone, so I keep it.

jnovek 5y ago

The iPhone is not a luxury product; not in America, anyway. More than half of American smartphones in 2021 were iPhones. The iPhone is price-comparable to its Android contemporaries. The Android downmarket in the U.S. is a minority by a wide margin.

fomine3 5y ago

I don't know why this downvoted. Apple dropped latest iOS support for 5c in 2017. But 5c is most unloved device so not a good sample. It was released at the same time as 5s that introduced ARMv8 by A7. It was the worst time to release it with old chip. I'd pick iPhone SE 16GB in 2017 that's still in support.