4 ms·

I'm a bit torn, as on the one hand, I'm squarely in the target demo and appreciate the huge amount of work that has gone into the project, and the PPD is really

by lhl 5y ago

I'm a bit torn, as on the one hand, I'm squarely in the target demo and appreciate the huge amount of work that has gone into the project, and the PPD is really exciting. (back in 2015 I actually started building my own VR workspace software https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNtZmCDyEyU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNtZmCDyEyU with an Oculus DK2 but shelved it for other projects waiting for better HMD hardware that never arrived). But sadly, I fear that if I ordered a Simula, it might end up years late, half-baked, and sitting on the shelf like my LibreM 5 and many other open source hardware projects I've backed. (Also the ergonomics of the HMD really makes me a iffy on whether it can be worn comfortably for extended periods.) I also think it's also somewhat bad timing, since HMD hardware releases are finally picking up. Panasonic's MeganeX, which uses 2560x2560 120Hz micro-OLEDs, is finally being released in the spring for <$1000 after being first shown 2 years ago (and there seem to be lots of similar micro-OLED HMDs in the pipeline from various Chinese manufacturers). Also, even though the PPD is much lower, there's stuff like the Lynx R1 coming out shortly that will also have full OpenXR support, is committed to privacy and staying independent, and has number of things that makes it more useful as a platform for all-day wear and hacking on: an ultra-thin flip-up form factor, 6DoF SLAM, UltraLeap hand tracking, eye tracking, and has already-working overlay AR (w/ 20ms camera-eye pipeline).

kanetw 5y ago
We're aware of the micro OLEDs, but they're not able to provide the picture quality we desire (at least within a reasonable R&D budget). uOLEDs force pancake lenses, which have issues with transmission and ghost images. The Lynx R1 definitely is attractive in its own way. We have all of those specs except for the thinness. We're planning for our AR latency to be sub-frame (<11ms exposure to display photon out), but it needs verification with actual hardware which takes a while.
georgewsinger 5y ago
That demo you linked to is incredibly advanced & impressive for 2015. Thanks for sharing. Agreed there are definitely some cool headsets about to be released (both the Lynx and the MeganeX). I wish these projects well. Any successful VR headset (even gaming headsets) lift the whole industry and interest level up for everyone else. And it's also great for consumers, who get more choice. The niche we're attempting to carve is 100% VR computing focused. When you preorder our headset, you're signing up to get something that "just works" out of the box specifically for this use case (without any further hacking required). We're also leaning as much as possible on premium specs, which we need to power the clearest and most readable text (which is super important for long working sessions). Finally, I totally understand your concerns about backing a project that leads to a never-shipped product. We are committed to sending out weekly updates throughout the course of this project, and are aiming to have review units finished in a few months. Perhaps we can earn your trust over time, or after our first batch of headsets ship. If you change your mind in the interim, you (or anyone else who reads this) can use the discount code "DISCOUNT_HN" to get $100 off today. We also have a partial deposit option ($1,499 now; $1,499 before the headset ships) which allows people to spread the cost of the headset over time. This allows you to reserve a headset now for lower than MSRP ($3,500), but not pay the full amount until you see more proof of our progress.
forgotmyoldacc 5y ago
> Panasonic's MeganeX, which uses 2560x2560 120Hz micro-OLEDs, is finally being released in the spring for <$1000 The FoV is probably going to be worse than current gen headsets (Index, Quest 1/2, etc).
- lhl 5y ago
  A lower FOV actually translates to better PPD. You can use a basic formula: sqrt(hRes^2+vRes^2)/FOV. So a 100 degree FOV would give you about 36PPD, but a 90 degree FOV would actually give you an even better 40PPD. 60PPD is Apple's target for a "Retina" display, although there's a strong argument that you need double that at least for line pairs. For computer work purposes, we really should only care about matching PPD of a monitor. 36PPD is about equivalent of a 27" FHD monitor from 2ft/60cm: https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/ https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/ and is probably good enough to start on focusing on other aspects of your optical design. For a bit more nuance, here's a nice article that talks about how rendering geometry maps to FOV https://risa2000.github.io/vrdocs/docs/hmd_fov_calculation.html https://risa2000.github.io/vrdocs/docs/hmd_fov_calculation.h... although notably this does not account for the distortion shaders used in modern HMD pipelines to correct both for geometry and chromatic aberrations. There can be more techniques for improved text rendering, like what Oculus does with their timewarp layers: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1942692682631906&id=100006735798590 https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1942692682... For those interested, here's some discussion focused on optimal text rendering in 3D engines: https://bgolus.medium.com/sharper-mipmapping-using-shader-based-supersampling-ed7aadb47bec https://bgolus.medium.com/sharper-mipmapping-using-shader-ba... In a previous thread, @kanetw was actually kind enough to chat in more detail about some of the Simula's optical specs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29930547 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29930547 For some basic references of different aspects of visual fidelity for HMDs, this old writeup by UC Davis professor/VR researcher Oliver Kreylos is a good place to start: http://doc-ok.org/?p=1414 http://doc-ok.org/?p=1414 If you're interested you can surf through his blog for lots of insights. Also, this doc is one I just found that does a good job covering a bunch of the optical issues with HMDs: http://almalence.com/doc/SPIE-11765-23-V3/Near-eye_display_optic_deficiencies_and_ways_to_overcome_them_SPIE-11765-23-v3.pdf http://almalence.com/doc/SPIE-11765-23-V3/Near-eye_display_o...

by lhl 5y ago

kanetw 5y ago

We're aware of the micro OLEDs, but they're not able to provide the picture quality we desire (at least within a reasonable R&D budget). uOLEDs force pancake lenses, which have issues with transmission and ghost images. The Lynx R1 definitely is attractive in its own way. We have all of those specs except for the thinness. We're planning for our AR latency to be sub-frame (<11ms exposure to display photon out), but it needs verification with actual hardware which takes a while.

georgewsinger 5y ago

That demo you linked to is incredibly advanced & impressive for 2015. Thanks for sharing. Agreed there are definitely some cool headsets about to be released (both the Lynx and the MeganeX). I wish these projects well. Any successful VR headset (even gaming headsets) lift the whole industry and interest level up for everyone else. And it's also great for consumers, who get more choice. The niche we're attempting to carve is 100% VR computing focused. When you preorder our headset, you're signing up to get something that "just works" out of the box specifically for this use case (without any further hacking required). We're also leaning as much as possible on premium specs, which we need to power the clearest and most readable text (which is super important for long working sessions). Finally, I totally understand your concerns about backing a project that leads to a never-shipped product. We are committed to sending out weekly updates throughout the course of this project, and are aiming to have review units finished in a few months. Perhaps we can earn your trust over time, or after our first batch of headsets ship. If you change your mind in the interim, you (or anyone else who reads this) can use the discount code "DISCOUNT_HN" to get $100 off today. We also have a partial deposit option ($1,499 now; $1,499 before the headset ships) which allows people to spread the cost of the headset over time. This allows you to reserve a headset now for lower than MSRP ($3,500), but not pay the full amount until you see more proof of our progress.

forgotmyoldacc 5y ago

> Panasonic's MeganeX, which uses 2560x2560 120Hz micro-OLEDs, is finally being released in the spring for <$1000 The FoV is probably going to be worse than current gen headsets (Index, Quest 1/2, etc).

lhl 5y ago
A lower FOV actually translates to better PPD. You can use a basic formula: sqrt(hRes^2+vRes^2)/FOV. So a 100 degree FOV would give you about 36PPD, but a 90 degree FOV would actually give you an even better 40PPD. 60PPD is Apple's target for a "Retina" display, although there's a strong argument that you need double that at least for line pairs. For computer work purposes, we really should only care about matching PPD of a monitor. 36PPD is about equivalent of a 27" FHD monitor from 2ft/60cm: https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/ https://qasimk.io/screen-ppd/ and is probably good enough to start on focusing on other aspects of your optical design. For a bit more nuance, here's a nice article that talks about how rendering geometry maps to FOV https://risa2000.github.io/vrdocs/docs/hmd_fov_calculation.html https://risa2000.github.io/vrdocs/docs/hmd_fov_calculation.h... although notably this does not account for the distortion shaders used in modern HMD pipelines to correct both for geometry and chromatic aberrations. There can be more techniques for improved text rendering, like what Oculus does with their timewarp layers: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1942692682631906&id=100006735798590 https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=1942692682... For those interested, here's some discussion focused on optimal text rendering in 3D engines: https://bgolus.medium.com/sharper-mipmapping-using-shader-based-supersampling-ed7aadb47bec https://bgolus.medium.com/sharper-mipmapping-using-shader-ba... In a previous thread, @kanetw was actually kind enough to chat in more detail about some of the Simula's optical specs: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29930547 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29930547 For some basic references of different aspects of visual fidelity for HMDs, this old writeup by UC Davis professor/VR researcher Oliver Kreylos is a good place to start: http://doc-ok.org/?p=1414 http://doc-ok.org/?p=1414 If you're interested you can surf through his blog for lots of insights. Also, this doc is one I just found that does a good job covering a bunch of the optical issues with HMDs: http://almalence.com/doc/SPIE-11765-23-V3/Near-eye_display_optic_deficiencies_and_ways_to_overcome_them_SPIE-11765-23-v3.pdf http://almalence.com/doc/SPIE-11765-23-V3/Near-eye_display_o...