6 ms·

This is all true, but it also doesn't mean the that the current high price was the only possible approach. I see decisions made in the design that don't look gr

by slg 5y ago

This is all true, but it also doesn't mean the that the current high price was the only possible approach. I see decisions made in the design that don't look great from cost-benefit standpoint. For example, this is being marketed mainly as a productivity tool. Wireless is certainly important for gaming when you are moving around in your environment, but people using this are primarily going to be in a stationary position either sitting or lying down. Why do they need the computer in the headset, which makes upgrading impossible, and for it to function completely wirelessly? It seems like prioritizing the integrated computer and the untethered experience increases the cost for little benefit. This is especially true considering this thing likely won't have great battery life so operating completely wirelessly won't be possible for extended periods of time anyway. What would this device cost if the primary design objective was to create an open wired headset and the software to accompany it? Whatever that is, it would be a more attractive value proposition for me personally and therefore likely for other customers too.

kanetw 5y ago
It doesn't make upgrading impossible. The compute pack is detachable, replacable, and can even function independently. The benefit is pretty crucial: friction. If you have a tethered VR headset, the amount of work you need to do to set it up is insane. Especially with lower-level software like Simula.
- slg 5y ago
  >It doesn't make upgrading impossible. The compute pack is... replacable It is only replaceable and upgradable if this company sells these compute modules separately. There is no discussion I saw on that website that they are committing to do this and there is no guarantee they will be around to still sell you one in the future. Even if they do, you are locked into their ecosystem. >The benefit is pretty crucial: friction. If you have a tethered VR headset, the amount of work you need to do to set it up is insane. I have never used a VR device on Linux and maybe the work involved there would be truly "insane", but I have used a few on Windows and they are basically completely plug and play after you install the software. Although even with the work involved, this seems to be an enthusiast device aimed at techies. If these customers are looking for a frictionless experience, they probably wouldn't be daily driving a Linux machine in the first place.
  - kanetw 5y ago
    The modules are available from Intel. You're locked into some of our custom components, true. But this is miles better than anything else on the market. The friction is both what we experienced as part of adoption and in my personal experience. Actual personal experiences may vary, of course.
    - slg 5y ago
      >The modules are available from Intel. You're locked into some of our custom components, true. But this is miles better than anything else on the market. I didn't realize you were involved in this company until I read your other comments. It is unclear what "You're locked into some of our custom components" means. Can a average techie, maybe someone who is comfortable opening their laptop to add RAM or new storage but wouldn't be comfortable making any other hardware changes, upgrade this with off the shelf parts? If the answer is yes, that should be in your marketing material. If the answer is no and you can't commit to selling these custom modules, then I stick to my original point.
      - kanetw 5y ago
        I'm the other co-founder. Yes, about as easy as opening a laptop. Unscrew some screws, lift a cover, install a new M.2 SSD or whatever. This is a picture of the "standard" assembly: https://i.kane.cx/NFIpf4 https://i.kane.cx/NFIpf4 -- compute element slots into a connector, and there's the standard M.2 slot etc. Ours won't be too different, just a different form factor/connectors/additional features. We're committing to selling all custom parts for at least a few years, but I can't give a hard number on how long. I'd say 4 years for sure.
        slg 5y ago
        That is great. This should be stated on your website and not deep in the comments of a HN thread.
        nonplus 5y ago
pharke 5y ago
I think the freedom of an untethered headset is a big selling feature, at least for people who have used both tethered and untethered VR headsets. Since the Simula has full color passthrough, it should be easy to get up and make a cup of coffee while still wearing the headset. This is a big deal, taking a headset off and putting it back on again is annoying and focus breaking. It adds inertia that isn't there when using a non-wearable device. Minimizing the number of times you have to do that in a day is a win. Untethered also allows you to be much more active, you can change seats or switch to standing as easily as if you were just holding a phone or tablet. It'd be nice to stretch my legs while I catch up on email or check a dashboard or flop on the couch while I watch a video or read an article. If the battery life isn't great, you only need to be plugged in while your sitting at your desk and can easily unplug the cable when you want to get up. Hopefully they made the port easy to find while wearing the headset.

by slg 5y ago

kanetw 5y ago

It doesn't make upgrading impossible. The compute pack is detachable, replacable, and can even function independently. The benefit is pretty crucial: friction. If you have a tethered VR headset, the amount of work you need to do to set it up is insane. Especially with lower-level software like Simula.

slg 5y ago
>It doesn't make upgrading impossible. The compute pack is... replacable It is only replaceable and upgradable if this company sells these compute modules separately. There is no discussion I saw on that website that they are committing to do this and there is no guarantee they will be around to still sell you one in the future. Even if they do, you are locked into their ecosystem. >The benefit is pretty crucial: friction. If you have a tethered VR headset, the amount of work you need to do to set it up is insane. I have never used a VR device on Linux and maybe the work involved there would be truly "insane", but I have used a few on Windows and they are basically completely plug and play after you install the software. Although even with the work involved, this seems to be an enthusiast device aimed at techies. If these customers are looking for a frictionless experience, they probably wouldn't be daily driving a Linux machine in the first place.
- kanetw 5y ago
  The modules are available from Intel. You're locked into some of our custom components, true. But this is miles better than anything else on the market. The friction is both what we experienced as part of adoption and in my personal experience. Actual personal experiences may vary, of course.
  - slg 5y ago
    >The modules are available from Intel. You're locked into some of our custom components, true. But this is miles better than anything else on the market. I didn't realize you were involved in this company until I read your other comments. It is unclear what "You're locked into some of our custom components" means. Can a average techie, maybe someone who is comfortable opening their laptop to add RAM or new storage but wouldn't be comfortable making any other hardware changes, upgrade this with off the shelf parts? If the answer is yes, that should be in your marketing material. If the answer is no and you can't commit to selling these custom modules, then I stick to my original point.
    - kanetw 5y ago
      I'm the other co-founder. Yes, about as easy as opening a laptop. Unscrew some screws, lift a cover, install a new M.2 SSD or whatever. This is a picture of the "standard" assembly: https://i.kane.cx/NFIpf4 https://i.kane.cx/NFIpf4 -- compute element slots into a connector, and there's the standard M.2 slot etc. Ours won't be too different, just a different form factor/connectors/additional features. We're committing to selling all custom parts for at least a few years, but I can't give a hard number on how long. I'd say 4 years for sure.
      - slg 5y ago
        That is great. This should be stated on your website and not deep in the comments of a HN thread.
        nonplus 5y ago

pharke 5y ago

I think the freedom of an untethered headset is a big selling feature, at least for people who have used both tethered and untethered VR headsets. Since the Simula has full color passthrough, it should be easy to get up and make a cup of coffee while still wearing the headset. This is a big deal, taking a headset off and putting it back on again is annoying and focus breaking. It adds inertia that isn't there when using a non-wearable device. Minimizing the number of times you have to do that in a day is a win. Untethered also allows you to be much more active, you can change seats or switch to standing as easily as if you were just holding a phone or tablet. It'd be nice to stretch my legs while I catch up on email or check a dashboard or flop on the couch while I watch a video or read an article. If the battery life isn't great, you only need to be plugged in while your sitting at your desk and can easily unplug the cable when you want to get up. Hopefully they made the port easy to find while wearing the headset.