3 ms·

1) It matter but not that much. There are 92000 physicians in Canada. Of course, most of them are involved in many other healthcare activities. In general, hosp

by NoPie 5y ago

1) It matter but not that much. There are 92000 physicians in Canada. Of course, most of them are involved in many other healthcare activities. In general, hospitals have 1 physician for 10 patients which means that only 200 more physicians are required during this time. Probably vaccine mandates have prevented more than that number to even work. Staff availability was one of the reasons why the UK decided to revoke vaccine mandates even for healthcare staff. 2) “Trust in government” is something that is thrown around but mostly it is speculation. It was said that Sweden didn't need mandatory lockdowns because Swedes trust in the government but people in the UK do not. And yet, with vaccinations both countries have done well without vaccine mandates. Is Canada really so much different from the UK? I really doubt it. It is probably more similar to the UK than to the USA. My original argument was that vaccination uptake by elderly is that matters the most. And data clearly shows that it is true. For example, Israel despite strict vaccine mandates have poor vaccination uptake by elderly. It could be even argued that vaccine mandates may decrease vaccination uptake by elderly. As you say, Canada introduced vaccine mandates when majority of elderly where already vaccinated so that there was no noticiable slowdown in this group but other countries may have even made this worse by pointless vaccine mandates.

BeefWellington 5y ago
> 1) It matter but not that much. There are 92000 physicians in Canada. Of course, most of them are involved in many other healthcare activities. In general, hospitals have 1 physician for 10 patients which means that only 200 more physicians are required during this time. Probably vaccine mandates have prevented more than that number to even work. Staff availability was one of the reasons why the UK decided to revoke vaccine mandates even for healthcare staff. Most of this is guesswork. Please provide evidence to back up any of these claims. > 2) “Trust in government” is something that is thrown around but mostly it is speculation. It was said that Sweden didn't need mandatory lockdowns because Swedes trust in the government but people in the UK do not. And yet, with vaccinations both countries have done well without vaccine mandates. Is Canada really so much different from the UK? I really doubt it. It is probably more similar to the UK than to the USA. Again, portions of the UK did have vaccine mandates, just not the most populous part. "Done well" is also a difficult pill to swallow given that the UK as a whole saw COVID-19 death rates of 2,359/1M people, Sweden had rates of 1,666/1M people, while Canada has had a rate of 948/1M people. The UK and Sweden also both lag behind Canada in terms of vaccination, at 85%/81% in Canada vs 77%/72% the UK and 77%/75% for Sweden,[2] despite the UK starting their vaccination efforts before every other country. > My original argument was that vaccination uptake by elderly is that matters the most. And data clearly shows that it is true. For example, Israel despite strict vaccine mandates have poor vaccination uptake by elderly. It could be even argued that vaccine mandates may decrease vaccination uptake by elderly. As you say, Canada introduced vaccine mandates when majority of elderly where already vaccinated so that there was no noticiable slowdown in this group but other countries may have even made this worse by pointless vaccine mandates. I'm not sure how making proof of vaccination a requirement to do things is going to prevent people from getting vaccinated. Also, you appear to be completely wrong about Israel, as according to [3] the 60+ crowd are driving the bulk of their vaccinations at 80% with two doses. If you're going to continue to debate this, please at least research the things you're going to respond with. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_... [2]: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations [3]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-vaccination-by-age?country=~ISR https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-vaccination-by-age...
- NoPie 5y ago
  1) The reference is the UK health ministry report why they revoked the vaccine mandates for healthcare professionals. 2) With the global perspective the differences are not significant. Most important what are vaccination rates among elderly? You correctly show that in Israel it is barely 90% and somehow the graph doesn't show it but it has remained something like that for over the year. While in the UK (and Canada) it is close 99.9%. See the difference?

by NoPie 5y ago

BeefWellington 5y ago

> 1) It matter but not that much. There are 92000 physicians in Canada. Of course, most of them are involved in many other healthcare activities. In general, hospitals have 1 physician for 10 patients which means that only 200 more physicians are required during this time. Probably vaccine mandates have prevented more than that number to even work. Staff availability was one of the reasons why the UK decided to revoke vaccine mandates even for healthcare staff. Most of this is guesswork. Please provide evidence to back up any of these claims. > 2) “Trust in government” is something that is thrown around but mostly it is speculation. It was said that Sweden didn't need mandatory lockdowns because Swedes trust in the government but people in the UK do not. And yet, with vaccinations both countries have done well without vaccine mandates. Is Canada really so much different from the UK? I really doubt it. It is probably more similar to the UK than to the USA. Again, portions of the UK did have vaccine mandates, just not the most populous part. "Done well" is also a difficult pill to swallow given that the UK as a whole saw COVID-19 death rates of 2,359/1M people, Sweden had rates of 1,666/1M people, while Canada has had a rate of 948/1M people. The UK and Sweden also both lag behind Canada in terms of vaccination, at 85%/81% in Canada vs 77%/72% the UK and 77%/75% for Sweden,[2] despite the UK starting their vaccination efforts before every other country. > My original argument was that vaccination uptake by elderly is that matters the most. And data clearly shows that it is true. For example, Israel despite strict vaccine mandates have poor vaccination uptake by elderly. It could be even argued that vaccine mandates may decrease vaccination uptake by elderly. As you say, Canada introduced vaccine mandates when majority of elderly where already vaccinated so that there was no noticiable slowdown in this group but other countries may have even made this worse by pointless vaccine mandates. I'm not sure how making proof of vaccination a requirement to do things is going to prevent people from getting vaccinated. Also, you appear to be completely wrong about Israel, as according to [3] the 60+ crowd are driving the bulk of their vaccinations at 80% with two doses. If you're going to continue to debate this, please at least research the things you're going to respond with. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_by_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_death_rates_... [2]: https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations [3]: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-vaccination-by-age?country=~ISR https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/israel-vaccination-by-age...

NoPie 5y ago
1) The reference is the UK health ministry report why they revoked the vaccine mandates for healthcare professionals. 2) With the global perspective the differences are not significant. Most important what are vaccination rates among elderly? You correctly show that in Israel it is barely 90% and somehow the graph doesn't show it but it has remained something like that for over the year. While in the UK (and Canada) it is close 99.9%. See the difference?