8 ms·

This looks like a decent deal looking deeper into it. Things that weren't obvious on first pass: (1) The VR specs are much higher than consumer level. I susp

This looks like a decent deal looking deeper into it. Things that weren't obvious on first pass: (1) The VR specs are much higher than consumer level. I suspect this is what makes it reasonable to read text on it. The comparison headset is this: https://varjo.com/products/aero/ https://varjo.com/products/aero/ (They named it, but didn't google it) (2) They said "VR Computer" but don't define the term. They mean that it's a full PC with a headset instead of a regular display. Oddly they don't include a mouse or keyboard. My feedback for Simula one: (0) The value proposition here is (a) the included equipment and (b) the software. They together have to justify the price at some level. (1) You have to really push the point that this is a full computer, not another headset. I suggest you include a keyboard/mouse, and include it in the pictures with the headset (the pictures with just the headset, not the ones with the people). Perhaps a keyboard with a trackpad. (2) Show that the headset is substantially higher-spec than the consumer ones. Show a comparison chart. (3) Dump the AR coffee shop video. Show AR in a home office. Don't assume/require that your customers are that VR gun-ho. (4) Show more than a bunch of shells in the VR screenshots. I can alt-tab as fast as I can move my head, with less work. If this is your underlying value proposition, it sucks. I'm sorry. If you have something more interesting, like a combined VR/app environment, then it can work. (4.1) Is there some useful interactions between 3D visualization and high-quality small-text rendering? If you have good VR/3D developer stories, then this can work. (5) Simula One - is it Ubuntu with a 3d window manager and custom rendering stack? Does it do anything else? Does it just make a (claustrophobic) shell of windows around the user in VR? (5.1) Are there any integrations with anything? Like https://blog.jupyter.org/ipygany-jupyter-into-the-third-dimension-29a97597fc33 https://blog.jupyter.org/ipygany-jupyter-into-the-third-dime... ipygany? (5.2) What do you expect people to do with it? Is

drcode 5y ago
The coffee shop video is the sole reason I purchased it. Not that I'd really ever use it that way, but I want to live in a future where I could in principle do so without shame LOL
- lallysingh 5y ago
  Actually I'd like to see AR mode when outdoors!
  - riskable 5y ago
    Can't use these headsets outdoors because the sun will destroy the screens (powerful magnifying lens aiming right at the screen). In fact, you have to be careful indoors as well. These devices need a simple shutter that covers the displays automatically when it's not pressed against your face. This would solve the problem.
    - kanetw 5y ago
      You shouldn't take it off outdoors with the lenses pointing at the sun, no. Ambient light will be fine. Also don't stare at the sun with the cameras. Although if you do, they'll be replaceable.
      - octopoc 5y ago
        > they'll be replaceable Nice! Are other parts of the device repairable / replaceable as well?
        kanetw 5y ago
        Basically everything is modular. It's a huge design boon to be able to split things up and it comes naturally with reparability and to some extent upgradability. About the only thing I would be careful about replacing (but we'll still be offering) is the optical assembly, as dust will be pretty annoying if it gets in. We're planning a clean room just to handle the dust-sensitive parts of our equipment (image sensors, displays/optics, etc)
      - riskable 5y ago
        The natural motion for removing any VR headset is to lift it off your face and then hold it via the head strap which points the display directly upwards. Also, when placing the headset down for charging it's also natural to hang it up on a hook of some sort (via the head strap) which also has the side effect of pointing the lenses upwards. If someone does this near a window the sun can destroy it in no time.
georgewsinger 5y ago
Upvoted for the excellent feedback. 1. We'll do a better job defining the term "VR Computer" in our sales page. 2. We'll consider adding a keyboard/mouse as optional add-ons. We have thought about including a "keyboard apron" as an item add-on that is actually differentiated from other keyboards, and one that would be particularly useful for VR computing (with the added freedom of movement).[1] Would something like this interest you? Note that we'd use a more accessible keyboard than the 40% "Corne keyboard" one shown in the photo. 3. We're going to add some of our comparison charts showcasting the Simula One versus other products/prices. They were included in a recent blog post[2], but aren't featured on our shop. Looks like they would be helpful there as well. 4. We're definitely interested in developing "3D office apps" (or something like a Linux ecosystem for them), but decided that the first step was to get people using our 2D VR app environment first. 5. At a high level, SimulaOS is going to be NixOS + our VR window manager. The current features of this window manager are outlined here: https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula. We plan to add to these features over time (especially including: VR app tiling/window grouping and hand interactions). This should be better showcased in our shop though for sure. Thanks for flagging this. [1] https://www.wolframcloud.com/obj/george.w.singer/business/png/keyboard_aprons.png https://www.wolframcloud.com/obj/george.w.singer/business/pn... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29923197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29923197
- EvanAnderson 5y ago
  I have the opposite opinion as the parent post re: keyboard/mouse. If I'm buying a piece of kit like this I have very strong opinions already re: my input devices. Unless you can make good margin on the keyboard/mouse option I think you're just adding friction and expense to your internal processes to support it. As an aside: I've tried to learn a chording keyboard in the past without much success. In a desktop setting a chording keyboard never increased my productivity enough to make it worth the learning curve. A chording keyboard with this platform would be a much more positive value proposition for me.
  - lallysingh 5y ago
    Frankly the keyboard included doesn't matter. Include it as an optional add-on, but _put_it_in_the_picture_. So it looks like a complete system, not just a headset.
ansible 5y ago
> * Is there some useful interactions between 3D visualization and high-quality small-text rendering? If you have good VR/3D developer stories, then this can work.* Yes, I want to see a CAD application where the user is looking at a complex CAD model in 3D, with labeled parts and everything, and usefully interacting with it. Typing commands, grabbing and turning the model, etc.
- kanetw 5y ago
  That would be so, so cool. I don't see this happening for a while unless a CAD vendor works with us but definitely where I see this tech.
  - Stephen304 5y ago
    It might be lower hanging fruit to start with something like a VR renderer for openscad - it would be amazing to be able to type openscad code into a floating window and see a live updating floating render of the object I am building next to that. I suppose the bounding box of the output could be considered a 3D vr window of sorts.
  - lallysingh 5y ago
    The Blender / FreeCAD communities might bite.
    - ge96 5y ago
      Was thinking what GitHub does to preview STLs. I'm assuming WebGL with glTF exported... Meaning am ElectronJS app in transparent mode code render a 3D thing like a part to be 3D printed.
      - lallysingh 5y ago
        Yes! Some desktop 'widgets' that show 3d content from various forms. I wouldn't go as far as fsv[1] but some basic in-environment vis is called for. [1] http://fsv.sourceforge.net/screenshots/ http://fsv.sourceforge.net/screenshots/
cookingmyserver 5y ago
I would highly discourage including a keyboard or mouse. If you are already spending $2700 on a VR computer I suspect you already have a keyboard or mouse you prefer or want to invest in a setup of your choice. No point in creating eWaste to drive home the point that this is a computer. And to that point you say that they need to emphasize that it is a computer and not just another headset (to the point of saying included a keyboard and mouse), but then bring up their use of terminal windows in their marketing (I agree though they should show other things as you suggested)? Two of your points in your comment seem to be lambasting the fact SimulaVR aren't advertising towards the lowest common denominator of people buying tech. It is a $2700 computer and display. Who exactly, that would ever actually purchase this device, would not understand it is a computer (or that it can come with one if you aren't doing stand alone), or not realize that if it can be used in a coffee shop it can be used in a home office?
- echelon 5y ago
  > I would highly discourage including a keyboard or mouse. Counterpoint: I thought this was just another headset with the distinguishing feature that it could read text well, and I've been sitting in their Discord server for over a month. Look at Nintendo's ROB. They needed that thing to escape the stigma of their predecessors. Home video game consoles until that point sucked, so they had to market themselves as a toy instead so people wouldn't automatically dismiss them. But I agree with your point about waste. Maybe it's simply a matter of marketing.
  - kanetw 5y ago
    Yeah, I've been trying to find solutions with George as to how to highlight we're a VR computer better. Getting the messaging right is tricky.
    - ianai 5y ago
      Maybe a user story sequence? Show someone watching their email inbox, a chat of some kind, replying to an email, and maybe making some change to a document referenced in the email. Maybe have someone 'size up' a photo for hanging on a wall. Apple's keynotes are good references for this stuff. I just want to point out that on second bluff, I'm much more optimistic about this than I was earlier in the thread. I'll be watching for weight characteristics. I almost wonder about an option to embed it in something more like a motorcycle helmet. The idea being that might feel more solid and not to actually have a motorcycle helmet. Plus Daft Punk made it cool.
chaostheory 5y ago
Agree with dropping the coffee shop video. It borders on cringe. Why? The giant box of a headset isn’t socially acceptable. It looks intimidating to use, alien, and heavy. IMO this is currently one of the largest challenges to XR. tbf this is a problem for all current and past generation VR headsets. I believe this is the main reason Apple is opting for thin goggles instead of a form factor that more closely resembles other VR headsets.
greggman3 5y ago
The coffee shop video is cringe for me. Conversely, sitting an a virtual cafe with others using their Simula One (like BigScreen and Immersed) is a draw for me. My brief experience with BigScreen (without the movies) was of being in a shard space, similar to a coffee shop vibe. People's avatars, in front of their *visible* monitors, with voice, and of course the avatars motions tied to the HMD made it feel very much like I wasn't alone.

drcode 5y ago

The coffee shop video is the sole reason I purchased it. Not that I'd really ever use it that way, but I want to live in a future where I could in principle do so without shame LOL

lallysingh 5y ago
Actually I'd like to see AR mode when outdoors!
- riskable 5y ago
  Can't use these headsets outdoors because the sun will destroy the screens (powerful magnifying lens aiming right at the screen). In fact, you have to be careful indoors as well. These devices need a simple shutter that covers the displays automatically when it's not pressed against your face. This would solve the problem.
  - kanetw 5y ago
    You shouldn't take it off outdoors with the lenses pointing at the sun, no. Ambient light will be fine. Also don't stare at the sun with the cameras. Although if you do, they'll be replaceable.
    - octopoc 5y ago
      > they'll be replaceable Nice! Are other parts of the device repairable / replaceable as well?
      - kanetw 5y ago
        Basically everything is modular. It's a huge design boon to be able to split things up and it comes naturally with reparability and to some extent upgradability. About the only thing I would be careful about replacing (but we'll still be offering) is the optical assembly, as dust will be pretty annoying if it gets in. We're planning a clean room just to handle the dust-sensitive parts of our equipment (image sensors, displays/optics, etc)
    - riskable 5y ago
      The natural motion for removing any VR headset is to lift it off your face and then hold it via the head strap which points the display directly upwards. Also, when placing the headset down for charging it's also natural to hang it up on a hook of some sort (via the head strap) which also has the side effect of pointing the lenses upwards. If someone does this near a window the sun can destroy it in no time.

georgewsinger 5y ago

Upvoted for the excellent feedback. 1. We'll do a better job defining the term "VR Computer" in our sales page. 2. We'll consider adding a keyboard/mouse as optional add-ons. We have thought about including a "keyboard apron" as an item add-on that is actually differentiated from other keyboards, and one that would be particularly useful for VR computing (with the added freedom of movement).[1] Would something like this interest you? Note that we'd use a more accessible keyboard than the 40% "Corne keyboard" one shown in the photo. 3. We're going to add some of our comparison charts showcasting the Simula One versus other products/prices. They were included in a recent blog post[2], but aren't featured on our shop. Looks like they would be helpful there as well. 4. We're definitely interested in developing "3D office apps" (or something like a Linux ecosystem for them), but decided that the first step was to get people using our 2D VR app environment first. 5. At a high level, SimulaOS is going to be NixOS + our VR window manager. The current features of this window manager are outlined here: https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula https://github.com/SimulaVR/Simula. We plan to add to these features over time (especially including: VR app tiling/window grouping and hand interactions). This should be better showcased in our shop though for sure. Thanks for flagging this. [1] https://www.wolframcloud.com/obj/george.w.singer/business/png/keyboard_aprons.png https://www.wolframcloud.com/obj/george.w.singer/business/pn... [2] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29923197 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29923197

EvanAnderson 5y ago
I have the opposite opinion as the parent post re: keyboard/mouse. If I'm buying a piece of kit like this I have very strong opinions already re: my input devices. Unless you can make good margin on the keyboard/mouse option I think you're just adding friction and expense to your internal processes to support it. As an aside: I've tried to learn a chording keyboard in the past without much success. In a desktop setting a chording keyboard never increased my productivity enough to make it worth the learning curve. A chording keyboard with this platform would be a much more positive value proposition for me.
- lallysingh 5y ago
  Frankly the keyboard included doesn't matter. Include it as an optional add-on, but _put_it_in_the_picture_. So it looks like a complete system, not just a headset.

ansible 5y ago

> * Is there some useful interactions between 3D visualization and high-quality small-text rendering? If you have good VR/3D developer stories, then this can work.* Yes, I want to see a CAD application where the user is looking at a complex CAD model in 3D, with labeled parts and everything, and usefully interacting with it. Typing commands, grabbing and turning the model, etc.

kanetw 5y ago
That would be so, so cool. I don't see this happening for a while unless a CAD vendor works with us but definitely where I see this tech.
- Stephen304 5y ago
  It might be lower hanging fruit to start with something like a VR renderer for openscad - it would be amazing to be able to type openscad code into a floating window and see a live updating floating render of the object I am building next to that. I suppose the bounding box of the output could be considered a 3D vr window of sorts.
- lallysingh 5y ago
  The Blender / FreeCAD communities might bite.
  - ge96 5y ago
    Was thinking what GitHub does to preview STLs. I'm assuming WebGL with glTF exported... Meaning am ElectronJS app in transparent mode code render a 3D thing like a part to be 3D printed.
    - lallysingh 5y ago
      Yes! Some desktop 'widgets' that show 3d content from various forms. I wouldn't go as far as fsv[1] but some basic in-environment vis is called for. [1] http://fsv.sourceforge.net/screenshots/ http://fsv.sourceforge.net/screenshots/

cookingmyserver 5y ago

I would highly discourage including a keyboard or mouse. If you are already spending $2700 on a VR computer I suspect you already have a keyboard or mouse you prefer or want to invest in a setup of your choice. No point in creating eWaste to drive home the point that this is a computer. And to that point you say that they need to emphasize that it is a computer and not just another headset (to the point of saying included a keyboard and mouse), but then bring up their use of terminal windows in their marketing (I agree though they should show other things as you suggested)? Two of your points in your comment seem to be lambasting the fact SimulaVR aren't advertising towards the lowest common denominator of people buying tech. It is a $2700 computer and display. Who exactly, that would ever actually purchase this device, would not understand it is a computer (or that it can come with one if you aren't doing stand alone), or not realize that if it can be used in a coffee shop it can be used in a home office?

echelon 5y ago
> I would highly discourage including a keyboard or mouse. Counterpoint: I thought this was just another headset with the distinguishing feature that it could read text well, and I've been sitting in their Discord server for over a month. Look at Nintendo's ROB. They needed that thing to escape the stigma of their predecessors. Home video game consoles until that point sucked, so they had to market themselves as a toy instead so people wouldn't automatically dismiss them. But I agree with your point about waste. Maybe it's simply a matter of marketing.
- kanetw 5y ago
  Yeah, I've been trying to find solutions with George as to how to highlight we're a VR computer better. Getting the messaging right is tricky.
  - ianai 5y ago
    Maybe a user story sequence? Show someone watching their email inbox, a chat of some kind, replying to an email, and maybe making some change to a document referenced in the email. Maybe have someone 'size up' a photo for hanging on a wall. Apple's keynotes are good references for this stuff. I just want to point out that on second bluff, I'm much more optimistic about this than I was earlier in the thread. I'll be watching for weight characteristics. I almost wonder about an option to embed it in something more like a motorcycle helmet. The idea being that might feel more solid and not to actually have a motorcycle helmet. Plus Daft Punk made it cool.

chaostheory 5y ago

Agree with dropping the coffee shop video. It borders on cringe. Why? The giant box of a headset isn’t socially acceptable. It looks intimidating to use, alien, and heavy. IMO this is currently one of the largest challenges to XR. tbf this is a problem for all current and past generation VR headsets. I believe this is the main reason Apple is opting for thin goggles instead of a form factor that more closely resembles other VR headsets.

greggman3 5y ago

The coffee shop video is cringe for me. Conversely, sitting an a virtual cafe with others using their Simula One (like BigScreen and Immersed) is a draw for me. My brief experience with BigScreen (without the movies) was of being in a shard space, similar to a coffee shop vibe. People's avatars, in front of their *visible* monitors, with voice, and of course the avatars motions tied to the HMD made it feel very much like I wasn't alone.