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> Memes, like genes, are "selfish" — their sole goal is to replicate I've heard this bandied about before but it makes no sense to me. Genes are the code enabl

> Memes, like genes, are "selfish" — their sole goal is to replicate I've heard this bandied about before but it makes no sense to me. Genes are the code enabling duplication of life. Successful replication paths have been stumbled upon so life continues to exists. None of that applies to memes

anoonmoose 5y ago
the dude who invented the word meme wrote an entire book explaining this metaphor
krapp 5y ago
> Genes are the code enabling duplication of life. Successful replication paths have been stumbled upon so life continues to exists. >None of that applies to memes That is literally the original definition of, and concept behind, memes[0], as coined by Richard Dawkins in the 1970s - a self-replicating component of culture equivalent in behavior to a virus or DNA in biology, which acts to propagate cultural ideals, symbols or practices. The study of the "successful replication paths" of memes in this original context is called memetics[1]. You may have that confused for what "meme" has come to represent in internet culture, which is a popular image caption or joke that spreads no cultural referent other than itself, but that's not what's being discussed here. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics
- labrador 5y ago
  Thanks, yes I was thinking of joke images
AbrahamParangi 5y ago
On the contrary, the gene rules apply to anything that duplicates or is duplicated. Not just ideas or phenotypes. It’s a property of path-dependency. What exists today is a function of what existed yesterday, and not what did not exist. Everything that exists “descends” from something that survived the filter of reality, where only a subset of what is possible is realized.
bryanrasmussen 5y ago
the problem with memetics is that genetics is a scientific area of study describing how genes replicate and memetics is trying to seem like a scientific area of study by using genetics as analogy. That is to say while genes can be studied and tested and predicted about, memes can be described by analogy - this is what genes do and this is how a meme is like a gene. And this is why you get statements like 'memes, like genes, are "selfish" - their sole goal is to replicate'. Genes are this way because they have been tested and observed to be that way and there are good scientific reasons and theories explaining why they are this way, memes are that way because genes are that way and without genes as the guiding analogical relation then memes as a description for how knowledge and ideas are transmitted fall apart and are rendered unnecessary. on edit: I should say this is written as someone who believe there could be a real scientific field born out of memetics and who has written hundreds if not thousands of pages as to how memetic transmission and evolution happen, but still, it is currently just a fancy analogy and nothing more than that.

anoonmoose 5y ago

the dude who invented the word meme wrote an entire book explaining this metaphor

krapp 5y ago

> Genes are the code enabling duplication of life. Successful replication paths have been stumbled upon so life continues to exists. >None of that applies to memes That is literally the original definition of, and concept behind, memes[0], as coined by Richard Dawkins in the 1970s - a self-replicating component of culture equivalent in behavior to a virus or DNA in biology, which acts to propagate cultural ideals, symbols or practices. The study of the "successful replication paths" of memes in this original context is called memetics[1]. You may have that confused for what "meme" has come to represent in internet culture, which is a popular image caption or joke that spreads no cultural referent other than itself, but that's not what's being discussed here. [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meme [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memetics

labrador 5y ago
Thanks, yes I was thinking of joke images

AbrahamParangi 5y ago

On the contrary, the gene rules apply to anything that duplicates or is duplicated. Not just ideas or phenotypes. It’s a property of path-dependency. What exists today is a function of what existed yesterday, and not what did not exist. Everything that exists “descends” from something that survived the filter of reality, where only a subset of what is possible is realized.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago

the problem with memetics is that genetics is a scientific area of study describing how genes replicate and memetics is trying to seem like a scientific area of study by using genetics as analogy. That is to say while genes can be studied and tested and predicted about, memes can be described by analogy - this is what genes do and this is how a meme is like a gene. And this is why you get statements like 'memes, like genes, are "selfish" - their sole goal is to replicate'. Genes are this way because they have been tested and observed to be that way and there are good scientific reasons and theories explaining why they are this way, memes are that way because genes are that way and without genes as the guiding analogical relation then memes as a description for how knowledge and ideas are transmitted fall apart and are rendered unnecessary. on edit: I should say this is written as someone who believe there could be a real scientific field born out of memetics and who has written hundreds if not thousands of pages as to how memetic transmission and evolution happen, but still, it is currently just a fancy analogy and nothing more than that.