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"Improving/preserving wealthy elites will naturally benefit fewer people. These are facts, with evidence" You are implying, that it is a fact that right leani

"Improving/preserving wealthy elites will naturally benefit fewer people. These are facts, with evidence" You are implying, that it is a fact that right leaning people want to preserve wealthy elites. But this is not, what I heard from right leaning people as their goals. "Capitalism, or more specifically inequality created the tribes." And I believe, tribes existed way before capitalism. So I believe, that you are indeed quite extremist in your ideology, if you know as a fact, that left is good and right is bad. There are many, many different contradicting views and concepts on the right as well on the left. To some I agree, to many I do not. But as an example, the nazis are considered quite right usually. But it is nationalsocialism. The concept of the greater good for the people (of one race). So they are left then? I rather think the whole left right concept is flawed and not helpful.

onethought 5y ago
There are not contradicting views. If you look at them with a lenses of preserving wealth they align quite neatly. I’d like to see a counter example. Nazis are the very definition of preserving the wealth of a few. It’s just you have seen the words “National Socialism” and assumed that meant left. You’ll find the labels are high jacked quite often. But left and right remain more consistent. Are you saying that trying to bring more benefit to wage earners is not good? Could you give an example of right wing policy that wasn’t focused on preserving wealthy elites?
- sol_invictus 5y ago
  I can give you plenty of left-wing policies that ended in mass genocide. How do you fit that into your mental model?
  - onethought 5y ago
    Were they trying to redistribute wealth or consolidate it? Where does genocide fit into anything I’ve said?
- hutzlibu 5y ago
  "It’s just you have seen the words “National Socialism” and assumed that meant left." No, I just happen to live in an area (in germany) with lots of nazis and had to engage with their ideology a lot. There definitely exist anticapitalist, socialist fascist today, as did back then. Those are the ones, that were put down in Nazi germany in 1934 in the Röhm Putsch, so they did not rose to power, but nevertheless exist. They do believe in a socialist aryan society. So the greater good and negating of the individual, but limited to a certain race. So how do they fit in, in the left = altruistic, right = selfish metric? They are not individualists. They are willing to sacrifice themself for Volk und Vaterland. "There are not contradicting views" And with contradicting I meant in general. The socialist pagan Nazis do not really agree with the capitalist, catholic fascist of spain for example, but both are labeld right. While anarchosyndicalist do not really share much with stalinist, yet both are labeled left.
  - onethought 5y ago
    Seems you’ve applied values of your own. I didn’t frame one as selfish and the other as altruistic. I framed one as spreading wealth and one as consolidating it. I gave “selfish” examples for both. If you care about preserving wealth with elites that is right wing… whatever weird political label you give it. If you care about distributing it to non elites that is left wing. Stalinists are not “left” they were about wealth and power consolidation. This is why right and left are useful measures because it sees passes all the bullshit names/political measures and provides a simple scale: are you redistributing wealth (left)? Are you consolidating wealth (right)? Are you doing something in between (centrist)
    - hutzlibu 5y ago
      Ok, so how do the national socialist fit into your metric? They are left, because they want to redistribute wealth, from the few rich (jewish) bankers, to the poor (aryan) german masses?
      - onethought 5y ago
        No, they wanted to move wealth, and consolidate it. So you could be fooled into initially thinking it was a leftist agenda when it was “take wealth away from rich bankers”. But it quite quickly deteriorated to something else. It’s important distinction that at the extremes both left and right don’t look that different. It is essentially use extreme violence to achieve wealth distribution/consolidation. Typically once someone is in control of such power even if they set out/pretended to distribute they pivot to consolidation. I guess this is what is meant by “power corrupts”

onethought 5y ago

There are not contradicting views. If you look at them with a lenses of preserving wealth they align quite neatly. I’d like to see a counter example. Nazis are the very definition of preserving the wealth of a few. It’s just you have seen the words “National Socialism” and assumed that meant left. You’ll find the labels are high jacked quite often. But left and right remain more consistent. Are you saying that trying to bring more benefit to wage earners is not good? Could you give an example of right wing policy that wasn’t focused on preserving wealthy elites?

sol_invictus 5y ago
I can give you plenty of left-wing policies that ended in mass genocide. How do you fit that into your mental model?
- onethought 5y ago
  Were they trying to redistribute wealth or consolidate it? Where does genocide fit into anything I’ve said?
hutzlibu 5y ago
"It’s just you have seen the words “National Socialism” and assumed that meant left." No, I just happen to live in an area (in germany) with lots of nazis and had to engage with their ideology a lot. There definitely exist anticapitalist, socialist fascist today, as did back then. Those are the ones, that were put down in Nazi germany in 1934 in the Röhm Putsch, so they did not rose to power, but nevertheless exist. They do believe in a socialist aryan society. So the greater good and negating of the individual, but limited to a certain race. So how do they fit in, in the left = altruistic, right = selfish metric? They are not individualists. They are willing to sacrifice themself for Volk und Vaterland. "There are not contradicting views" And with contradicting I meant in general. The socialist pagan Nazis do not really agree with the capitalist, catholic fascist of spain for example, but both are labeld right. While anarchosyndicalist do not really share much with stalinist, yet both are labeled left.
- onethought 5y ago
  Seems you’ve applied values of your own. I didn’t frame one as selfish and the other as altruistic. I framed one as spreading wealth and one as consolidating it. I gave “selfish” examples for both. If you care about preserving wealth with elites that is right wing… whatever weird political label you give it. If you care about distributing it to non elites that is left wing. Stalinists are not “left” they were about wealth and power consolidation. This is why right and left are useful measures because it sees passes all the bullshit names/political measures and provides a simple scale: are you redistributing wealth (left)? Are you consolidating wealth (right)? Are you doing something in between (centrist)
  - hutzlibu 5y ago
    Ok, so how do the national socialist fit into your metric? They are left, because they want to redistribute wealth, from the few rich (jewish) bankers, to the poor (aryan) german masses?
    - onethought 5y ago
      No, they wanted to move wealth, and consolidate it. So you could be fooled into initially thinking it was a leftist agenda when it was “take wealth away from rich bankers”. But it quite quickly deteriorated to something else. It’s important distinction that at the extremes both left and right don’t look that different. It is essentially use extreme violence to achieve wealth distribution/consolidation. Typically once someone is in control of such power even if they set out/pretended to distribute they pivot to consolidation. I guess this is what is meant by “power corrupts”