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If I am gay and I’m in the market for a wedding website, there is zero difference to me whether your policy is “don’t make wedding websites for gay people” or “

If I am gay and I’m in the market for a wedding website, there is zero difference to me whether your policy is “don’t make wedding websites for gay people” or “don’t make websites for gay people”. You might be willing to make a website for my business or my portfolio, but that doesn’t matter because I don’t need that. Whatever your reasoning, the impact is exactly the same: your policy, as designed, excludes me as a customer. The article also says that the issue will be limited to the “Free Speech Clause of the 1st Amendment”, so in a legal sense I think the fact that someone might make such a policy because of their religion is irrelevant in this case.

rayiner 5y ago
The customer’s viewpoint isn’t the only one that matters. If you’re a Muslim who believes what the Prophet—the one who exemplifies the perfect man—said to be true, then what you’re being asked to create makes a big difference. While the Supreme Court will address this on First Amendment grounds, that doesn’t mean religion is irrelevant. Speech is deeply intertwined with religion. There is a long history of forcing people to engage in speech contrary to their religious beliefs as a way to attack and destroy the religion.
- sofixa 5y ago
- jakelazaroff 5y ago
  There is also a history way of using religion as a pretext to discriminate against people. I know plenty of Muslims who don’t harbor any negative views of homosexuality, for instance; it’s certainly not a required tenet. And if we’re discussing this in moral rather than legal terms, I actually do think the customer’s viewpoint is the only one that matters.
  - rayiner 5y ago
    It’s not for the government to decide what’s a “requires tenet” of a religion. Moreover, Islam isn’t Protestant Christianity. You don’t read the book and make up your own mind about what it means. Islam has baked into it a principle that lay people defer to religious scholars on major doctrinal questions. American Muslims (I’m an immigrant from a Muslim country) have a very nuanced view on same-sex marriage. Most support it’s legality because they view white Americans as belonging to a distinct culture that isn’t subject to Islamic law. But in their own community it’s completely unacceptable: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progress/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progres.... Thus there is a big difference for most Muslims between equal rights, non-discrimination protections, etc., and anything that would require their personal involvement.

rayiner 5y ago

The customer’s viewpoint isn’t the only one that matters. If you’re a Muslim who believes what the Prophet—the one who exemplifies the perfect man—said to be true, then what you’re being asked to create makes a big difference. While the Supreme Court will address this on First Amendment grounds, that doesn’t mean religion is irrelevant. Speech is deeply intertwined with religion. There is a long history of forcing people to engage in speech contrary to their religious beliefs as a way to attack and destroy the religion.

sofixa 5y ago
jakelazaroff 5y ago
There is also a history way of using religion as a pretext to discriminate against people. I know plenty of Muslims who don’t harbor any negative views of homosexuality, for instance; it’s certainly not a required tenet. And if we’re discussing this in moral rather than legal terms, I actually do think the customer’s viewpoint is the only one that matters.
- rayiner 5y ago
  It’s not for the government to decide what’s a “requires tenet” of a religion. Moreover, Islam isn’t Protestant Christianity. You don’t read the book and make up your own mind about what it means. Islam has baked into it a principle that lay people defer to religious scholars on major doctrinal questions. American Muslims (I’m an immigrant from a Muslim country) have a very nuanced view on same-sex marriage. Most support it’s legality because they view white Americans as belonging to a distinct culture that isn’t subject to Islamic law. But in their own community it’s completely unacceptable: https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progress/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/28/us/lgbt-muslims-pride-progres.... Thus there is a big difference for most Muslims between equal rights, non-discrimination protections, etc., and anything that would require their personal involvement.