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The Christian bible does arguably say that homosexuality is a vice and perhaps a form of idolatry, but it says absolutely nothing about doing business with gay

by elil17 5y ago

The Christian bible does arguably say that homosexuality is a vice and perhaps a form of idolatry, but it says absolutely nothing about doing business with gay people. Nothing in the Bible says that you shouldn’t make a cake or website for someone because they are a “sinner.” What the people behind these lawsuit really seem to believe in is dominionism/Christian Reconstructionism - the political belief that the United States should be a Christian theocracy. The idea that you need to shun people for not following Christian religious laws is neither in the Bible, a tenant of mainstream Christianity, nor a political belief compatible with a free society.

willcipriano 5y ago
> but it says absolutely nothing about doing business with gay people. Nothing in the Bible says that you shouldn’t make a cake or website for someone because they are a “sinner.” Instead it suggests you kill them on sight. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" Leviticus 20:13
- elil17 5y ago
  That’s the Old Testament, which is not literally/strictly followed by Christians, nor by most people in other Abraham of religions. If you want to follow the Old Testament, be my guest, but you should also keepeth the Sabbath, giveth up pork, and kill anyone working on a Sabbath, doing seances, or says “god damn”. And if your child disobeys you, you don’t have to murder them yourself, but you must at least get your neighbors to murder them for you. The New Testament compares homosexuality to greed and says that you won’t “inherit the kingdom of heaven.” If this woman wants to have a consistent world view, she should also check to make sure the websites she builds won’t be used for any greedy purposes such as usury. In fact, if she accepts payments by credit card…
  - azth 5y ago
    > The New Testament compares homosexuality to greed and says that you won’t “inherit the kingdom of heaven.” So it says they will not enter heaven, why would you want to force her to go against what her religion tells her?
    - sofixa 5y ago
      They the gays, not they everyone who interacts with them.
      - azth 5y ago
        Interaction is different from promoting their ideology, wouldn't you agree?
        elil17 5y ago
        I think it’s insane to say that making a website meant for someone’s friends and family to see is “promoting an ideology”. She would be primarily collating and displaying data provided to her by her client. It’s also plain offensive to call having a family an “ideology.” It’s just a thing people do, they’re living their lives.
        azth 5y ago
        By making a website for homosexuals, she is aiding them to engage in a sinful activity. It's really quite straightforward logical behavior. And from Christianity's perspective (as well as many other faiths), this is not a "family". You don't get to impose your ideology on someone else like that. Where's freedom of expression, as per your own country's law?
  - willcipriano 5y ago
    > which is not literally/strictly followed by Christians That is not accurate. The old testament is something like 80% of the bible. It contains the ten commandments, the story of creation and many other things that are still in use today. Like any other religion, different sects have different interpretations of the Bible, but I'm not aware of anyone who throws the old testament out entirely (it also wouldn't make much sense, Jesus is fulfilling a prophecy from the old testament, without that he's just some guy). Further, you will often hear about a "personal relationship with Christ" that the faithful have, that is to say everyone interpets the Bible differently.
    - elil17 5y ago
      Right, but only political extremists pick and choose the parts that they think can promote hate and ignore the rest - which is what she’s doing by not keeping the Sabbath and not killing those who do not.
azth 5y ago
Doing business with someone vs. promoting their ideology and helping them engage in sin are two very different issues. She can sell them a neutral website that does not promote homosexuality for instance, which is very different from making a website that announces and promotes the practice, which goes against her faith. > nor a political belief compatible with a free society So in a free society, one cannot point out contradictions or hypocrisy?
- elil17 5y ago
  In a free society, you don’t get to try to make your extremist religious beliefs into law. Look at the theocracies of the world - they are not good places to live for most people.
  - AussieWog93 5y ago
    >Look at the theocracies of the world - they are not good places to live for most people. I say this as an Atheist - it goes both ways. Countries where a lack of religion is forced can be pretty abhorrent too. Think of North Korea or Stalin's USSR. Perhaps the problem doesn't lie in the fact that the state-enforced ideology is religious, but instead that there is a state-enforced ideology at all.
    - azth 5y ago
      The problem is not in enforcing any arbitrary ideology (there needs to be one at the end of the day, there's no getting away from it), but that whether or not said ideology is moral and is able to lead the nation to prosperity. I would argue that it is possible: turn to Islam. It prohibits immorality and deviancy and corruption which are at the root of almost everything we are seeing today, while allowing citizens and residents (even non-Muslims) flexibility into deciding certain things that do not violate the Law. For example, we have even Jewish historians admitting that the Jews had it better than anywhere else in the world when they lived under Muslim rule.
  - pinephoneguy 5y ago
    What about the right to choose who you associate with? These people don't want the law to stop everyone else, just protect them.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

by elil17 5y ago

willcipriano 5y ago

> but it says absolutely nothing about doing business with gay people. Nothing in the Bible says that you shouldn’t make a cake or website for someone because they are a “sinner.” Instead it suggests you kill them on sight. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" Leviticus 20:13

elil17 5y ago
That’s the Old Testament, which is not literally/strictly followed by Christians, nor by most people in other Abraham of religions. If you want to follow the Old Testament, be my guest, but you should also keepeth the Sabbath, giveth up pork, and kill anyone working on a Sabbath, doing seances, or says “god damn”. And if your child disobeys you, you don’t have to murder them yourself, but you must at least get your neighbors to murder them for you. The New Testament compares homosexuality to greed and says that you won’t “inherit the kingdom of heaven.” If this woman wants to have a consistent world view, she should also check to make sure the websites she builds won’t be used for any greedy purposes such as usury. In fact, if she accepts payments by credit card…
- azth 5y ago
  > The New Testament compares homosexuality to greed and says that you won’t “inherit the kingdom of heaven.” So it says they will not enter heaven, why would you want to force her to go against what her religion tells her?
  - sofixa 5y ago
    They the gays, not they everyone who interacts with them.
    - azth 5y ago
      Interaction is different from promoting their ideology, wouldn't you agree?
      - elil17 5y ago
        I think it’s insane to say that making a website meant for someone’s friends and family to see is “promoting an ideology”. She would be primarily collating and displaying data provided to her by her client. It’s also plain offensive to call having a family an “ideology.” It’s just a thing people do, they’re living their lives.
        azth 5y ago
        By making a website for homosexuals, she is aiding them to engage in a sinful activity. It's really quite straightforward logical behavior. And from Christianity's perspective (as well as many other faiths), this is not a "family". You don't get to impose your ideology on someone else like that. Where's freedom of expression, as per your own country's law?
- willcipriano 5y ago
  > which is not literally/strictly followed by Christians That is not accurate. The old testament is something like 80% of the bible. It contains the ten commandments, the story of creation and many other things that are still in use today. Like any other religion, different sects have different interpretations of the Bible, but I'm not aware of anyone who throws the old testament out entirely (it also wouldn't make much sense, Jesus is fulfilling a prophecy from the old testament, without that he's just some guy). Further, you will often hear about a "personal relationship with Christ" that the faithful have, that is to say everyone interpets the Bible differently.
  - elil17 5y ago
    Right, but only political extremists pick and choose the parts that they think can promote hate and ignore the rest - which is what she’s doing by not keeping the Sabbath and not killing those who do not.

azth 5y ago

Doing business with someone vs. promoting their ideology and helping them engage in sin are two very different issues. She can sell them a neutral website that does not promote homosexuality for instance, which is very different from making a website that announces and promotes the practice, which goes against her faith. > nor a political belief compatible with a free society So in a free society, one cannot point out contradictions or hypocrisy?

elil17 5y ago
In a free society, you don’t get to try to make your extremist religious beliefs into law. Look at the theocracies of the world - they are not good places to live for most people.
- AussieWog93 5y ago
  >Look at the theocracies of the world - they are not good places to live for most people. I say this as an Atheist - it goes both ways. Countries where a lack of religion is forced can be pretty abhorrent too. Think of North Korea or Stalin's USSR. Perhaps the problem doesn't lie in the fact that the state-enforced ideology is religious, but instead that there is a state-enforced ideology at all.
  - azth 5y ago
    The problem is not in enforcing any arbitrary ideology (there needs to be one at the end of the day, there's no getting away from it), but that whether or not said ideology is moral and is able to lead the nation to prosperity. I would argue that it is possible: turn to Islam. It prohibits immorality and deviancy and corruption which are at the root of almost everything we are seeing today, while allowing citizens and residents (even non-Muslims) flexibility into deciding certain things that do not violate the Law. For example, we have even Jewish historians admitting that the Jews had it better than anywhere else in the world when they lived under Muslim rule.
- pinephoneguy 5y ago
  What about the right to choose who you associate with? These people don't want the law to stop everyone else, just protect them.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]