7 ms·

Homosexuality is literally prohibited by Christianity, not so inter racial marriage. And I know this as a non Christian.

by azth 5y ago

Brian_K_White 5y ago
So what? Many things are written in many bibles that are recognized as uncivilized, unethical, immoral, and ultimately illegal. Whatever tennets of a religion that say to harm a other, fall outside of any freedom of religion protection, and are just as illegal for the practitioners as for anyone else. The case will merely decide if this sort of discrimination constitutes harming another. Think the store mysteriously always being out of flour for the black family. I think if you want to be selective in who you work for, you have the right not to operate a business. You can bake cakes for your friends all you like. But if you want to operate a business then you have no right to discriminate. A customer only needs to bring legal tender and not cause problems in any way that the law recognizes as a problem, applying equally to anyone anywhere. If the law of the land does not recognize gayness as illegal or harmful, then neither do any businesses. Although this case sounds like they are trying to make a finer point that they don't want to produce a message they don't agree with. IE, they claim they would service a gay customer if the work didn't happen to promote a gay message. That will probably be a bit messier. I'm no lawyer or judge so maybe this distinction is no great "gotcha" for a professional. But it seems to me like that idea opens up a lot of hard to argue grey areas, like how they are trying to invoke both violence and homosexuality in the same complaint. I can think of lots of examples of things that are not illegal that I would not like to participate in. I can think of lot's of legal businesses that I would not like to help with their IT or web site. I just happen to be revolted by other things than gay people.
kevingadd 5y ago
This is a pretty reductive and absolute statement to make when the position varies across the many, many different branches of the faith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_homosexuality#Liberal_position https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_homosexuality...
- azth 5y ago
  It's literally in their bible. Anyone claiming otherwise is not following it. All those institutions listed in the wikipedia article are not following their faith, but are modern liberalized watered down, and attempting to be hip and "keep up with the times". They caved to pressure.
  - anonymousab 5y ago
    > are modern liberalized watered down, and attempting to be hip and "keep up with the times" As was every transliteration, translation and revised version of their religious texts over time. As was the new testament to the old. Likely very little that is practiced today reflects the "original" version of the religions, whatever that may be.
    - azth 5y ago
      Yes, they corrupted the bible and their religion, we know that, and that's the point I was making. The trinity being a major invention for example. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't remnants and fragments of Truth from the original Message.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
elil17 5y ago
The Christian bible does arguably say that homosexuality is a vice and perhaps a form of idolatry, but it says absolutely nothing about doing business with gay people. Nothing in the Bible says that you shouldn’t make a cake or website for someone because they are a “sinner.” What the people behind these lawsuit really seem to believe in is dominionism/Christian Reconstructionism - the political belief that the United States should be a Christian theocracy. The idea that you need to shun people for not following Christian religious laws is neither in the Bible, a tenant of mainstream Christianity, nor a political belief compatible with a free society.
- willcipriano 5y ago
  > but it says absolutely nothing about doing business with gay people. Nothing in the Bible says that you shouldn’t make a cake or website for someone because they are a “sinner.” Instead it suggests you kill them on sight. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" Leviticus 20:13
  - elil17 5y ago
    That’s the Old Testament, which is not literally/strictly followed by Christians, nor by most people in other Abraham of religions. If you want to follow the Old Testament, be my guest, but you should also keepeth the Sabbath, giveth up pork, and kill anyone working on a Sabbath, doing seances, or says “god damn”. And if your child disobeys you, you don’t have to murder them yourself, but you must at least get your neighbors to murder them for you. The New Testament compares homosexuality to greed and says that you won’t “inherit the kingdom of heaven.” If this woman wants to have a consistent world view, she should also check to make sure the websites she builds won’t be used for any greedy purposes such as usury. In fact, if she accepts payments by credit card…
    - azth 5y ago
      > The New Testament compares homosexuality to greed and says that you won’t “inherit the kingdom of heaven.” So it says they will not enter heaven, why would you want to force her to go against what her religion tells her?

Homosexuality is literally prohibited by Christianity, not so inter racial marriage. And I know this as a non Christian.

by azth 5y ago

Homosexuality is literally prohibited by Christianity, not so inter racial marriage. And I know this as a non Christian.

Brian_K_White 5y ago

So what? Many things are written in many bibles that are recognized as uncivilized, unethical, immoral, and ultimately illegal. Whatever tennets of a religion that say to harm a other, fall outside of any freedom of religion protection, and are just as illegal for the practitioners as for anyone else. The case will merely decide if this sort of discrimination constitutes harming another. Think the store mysteriously always being out of flour for the black family. I think if you want to be selective in who you work for, you have the right not to operate a business. You can bake cakes for your friends all you like. But if you want to operate a business then you have no right to discriminate. A customer only needs to bring legal tender and not cause problems in any way that the law recognizes as a problem, applying equally to anyone anywhere. If the law of the land does not recognize gayness as illegal or harmful, then neither do any businesses. Although this case sounds like they are trying to make a finer point that they don't want to produce a message they don't agree with. IE, they claim they would service a gay customer if the work didn't happen to promote a gay message. That will probably be a bit messier. I'm no lawyer or judge so maybe this distinction is no great "gotcha" for a professional. But it seems to me like that idea opens up a lot of hard to argue grey areas, like how they are trying to invoke both violence and homosexuality in the same complaint. I can think of lots of examples of things that are not illegal that I would not like to participate in. I can think of lot's of legal businesses that I would not like to help with their IT or web site. I just happen to be revolted by other things than gay people.

kevingadd 5y ago

This is a pretty reductive and absolute statement to make when the position varies across the many, many different branches of the faith. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_homosexuality#Liberal_position https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christianity_and_homosexuality...

azth 5y ago
It's literally in their bible. Anyone claiming otherwise is not following it. All those institutions listed in the wikipedia article are not following their faith, but are modern liberalized watered down, and attempting to be hip and "keep up with the times". They caved to pressure.
- anonymousab 5y ago
  > are modern liberalized watered down, and attempting to be hip and "keep up with the times" As was every transliteration, translation and revised version of their religious texts over time. As was the new testament to the old. Likely very little that is practiced today reflects the "original" version of the religions, whatever that may be.
  - azth 5y ago
    Yes, they corrupted the bible and their religion, we know that, and that's the point I was making. The trinity being a major invention for example. However, that doesn't mean that there aren't remnants and fragments of Truth from the original Message.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

elil17 5y ago

The Christian bible does arguably say that homosexuality is a vice and perhaps a form of idolatry, but it says absolutely nothing about doing business with gay people. Nothing in the Bible says that you shouldn’t make a cake or website for someone because they are a “sinner.” What the people behind these lawsuit really seem to believe in is dominionism/Christian Reconstructionism - the political belief that the United States should be a Christian theocracy. The idea that you need to shun people for not following Christian religious laws is neither in the Bible, a tenant of mainstream Christianity, nor a political belief compatible with a free society.

willcipriano 5y ago
> but it says absolutely nothing about doing business with gay people. Nothing in the Bible says that you shouldn’t make a cake or website for someone because they are a “sinner.” Instead it suggests you kill them on sight. "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" Leviticus 20:13
- elil17 5y ago
  That’s the Old Testament, which is not literally/strictly followed by Christians, nor by most people in other Abraham of religions. If you want to follow the Old Testament, be my guest, but you should also keepeth the Sabbath, giveth up pork, and kill anyone working on a Sabbath, doing seances, or says “god damn”. And if your child disobeys you, you don’t have to murder them yourself, but you must at least get your neighbors to murder them for you. The New Testament compares homosexuality to greed and says that you won’t “inherit the kingdom of heaven.” If this woman wants to have a consistent world view, she should also check to make sure the websites she builds won’t be used for any greedy purposes such as usury. In fact, if she accepts payments by credit card…
  - azth 5y ago
    > The New Testament compares homosexuality to greed and says that you won’t “inherit the kingdom of heaven.” So it says they will not enter heaven, why would you want to force her to go against what her religion tells her?