4 ms·

I'm not sure I quite understand, but doesn't the bureacratic structure of cashless payments also provide the benefit of automatically documenting all your trans

I'm not sure I quite understand, but doesn't the bureacratic structure of cashless payments also provide the benefit of automatically documenting all your transactions for you so that you don't have to keep track of them manually? Unless, as I mentioned in another reply, your intention is to hide such transactions for whatever purpose - i.e. I know quite a few merchants use cash payments to avoid paying taxes. But that's all from the merchant's perspective. From the consumer's perspective, how does any of what you mentioned above matter? I have an account, a friend has an account. I send him money via Venmo or Paypal or whatever. The middleman might take a trivial fee for the transaction, but it's so trivial I nor the recipient are likely to care, and is outweighed by the convenience factor over using cash. With cash, we have to meet and exchange the money. Or use snailmail. With say Venmo, I open the app, press a few buttons, and my friend has the money in seconds even if he is physically hundreds of miles away. If I'm paying a merchant, then I just swipe or tap my card to the reader, wait a few seconds. I get a receipt and I'm on my way. I'm old enough that I made a few online purchases by sending cashier's checks through the mail. It was not a pleasant experience.

throwaway22032 5y ago
Meh. I don't really have a reply for this because we just obviously have really different worldviews so it's not going to really work. There is no consumer, or merchant, or hiding of transactions, or taxes, or Venmo, or Paypal, or any of this stuff. I'm standing next to you and you have an apple. I give you $1 for apple. I don't care about any of that other shit, it's like this whole invented set of problems that you've got a whole lexicon for. Yes, if I buy something online I don't send cash in the post. That should be bloody obvious.
- decafninja 5y ago
  Fair enough. I acknowledge people have different viewpoints on this issue. Believe it or not, my wife is actually a proponent of cash transactions. She has not been able to convince me of the benefits either. We've agreed to disagree. She carries the cash, and to my benefit she spots me whenever we encounter a merchant that doesn't accept credit cards since I don't carry cash.
  - throwaway22032 5y ago
    You don't seem to see the difference in language that you're subtly slipping in without realising. It's like a form of newspeak. "Accepting" credit card payments or bank transfers is meaningful. Accepting cash is not. Anyone can by default accept cash. There is no-one who cannot accept cash. You don't even need to have like, hands to count it with, I can put it in your pocket. In order to "not accept" cash you have to intentionally make the choice to be an arse and decline it. By contrast digital stuff is this whole web of "need an account, need an app, need a terminal, need this, ...". It's not automatic. It's like the difference between walking and having a car.
  - CogitoCogito 5y ago
    > She has not been able to convince me of the benefits either. … > She carries the cash, and to my benefit she spots me whenever we encounter a merchant that doesn't accept credit cards since I don't carry cash. I’m having trouble understanding these sentences written together in such short succession. Are you being serious?
    - decafninja 5y ago
      Not sure what you mean, but yes I'm serious. I rarely if ever carry cash. Nearly every transaction I make is via credit card. The only time I'll usually have cash is when traveling overseas (for emergencies, in the foreign currency, not USD). I find cash terribly inconvenient and annoying to use. Meanwhile my wife loves using cash. I don't understand it. It's not for any privacy or idealogical reason - she says she just likes the old fashioned feel of handling physical money. She doesn't understand my dislike of using cash. As I said, we've agreed to disagree. Every now and then when we're out together we'll encounter the rare merchant that doesn't accept credit card. Then she'll spot me with her cash. Otherwise we'll typically use our joint credit card. When she is out by herself she's much more likely to use the cash she always carries.
      - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
        70 years after plastic was invented, people are seriously been proud and think of themselves as progressive and tech savvy because they use plastic.
jjav 5y ago
> With say Venmo, I open the app, press a few buttons, and my friend has the money in seconds But they very much don't have the money yet. The transaction may have posted (if you happened to have connectivity) but it hasn't settled. It may be blocked in all kinds of ways before they actually get the money. Their account might be suspended. The payment processor may simply decide to never pay it (paypal being infamous for this). With cash, the moment the object and the bills change hands, the funds transfer has irrecovably settled without any external dependency being possible.
- Sankozi 5y ago
  > With cash, the moment the object and the bills change hands, the funds transfer has irrecovably settled without any external dependency being possible. It isn't even remotely true. You might get mugged, you might lose money, you might get counterfeit money.
  - walterbell 5y ago
    Those are pre/post-transaction risks, not settlement risks. Cashless systems also have their own pre/post-transaction risks.

throwaway22032 5y ago

Meh. I don't really have a reply for this because we just obviously have really different worldviews so it's not going to really work. There is no consumer, or merchant, or hiding of transactions, or taxes, or Venmo, or Paypal, or any of this stuff. I'm standing next to you and you have an apple. I give you $1 for apple. I don't care about any of that other shit, it's like this whole invented set of problems that you've got a whole lexicon for. Yes, if I buy something online I don't send cash in the post. That should be bloody obvious.

decafninja 5y ago
Fair enough. I acknowledge people have different viewpoints on this issue. Believe it or not, my wife is actually a proponent of cash transactions. She has not been able to convince me of the benefits either. We've agreed to disagree. She carries the cash, and to my benefit she spots me whenever we encounter a merchant that doesn't accept credit cards since I don't carry cash.
- throwaway22032 5y ago
  You don't seem to see the difference in language that you're subtly slipping in without realising. It's like a form of newspeak. "Accepting" credit card payments or bank transfers is meaningful. Accepting cash is not. Anyone can by default accept cash. There is no-one who cannot accept cash. You don't even need to have like, hands to count it with, I can put it in your pocket. In order to "not accept" cash you have to intentionally make the choice to be an arse and decline it. By contrast digital stuff is this whole web of "need an account, need an app, need a terminal, need this, ...". It's not automatic. It's like the difference between walking and having a car.
- CogitoCogito 5y ago
  > She has not been able to convince me of the benefits either. … > She carries the cash, and to my benefit she spots me whenever we encounter a merchant that doesn't accept credit cards since I don't carry cash. I’m having trouble understanding these sentences written together in such short succession. Are you being serious?
  - decafninja 5y ago
    Not sure what you mean, but yes I'm serious. I rarely if ever carry cash. Nearly every transaction I make is via credit card. The only time I'll usually have cash is when traveling overseas (for emergencies, in the foreign currency, not USD). I find cash terribly inconvenient and annoying to use. Meanwhile my wife loves using cash. I don't understand it. It's not for any privacy or idealogical reason - she says she just likes the old fashioned feel of handling physical money. She doesn't understand my dislike of using cash. As I said, we've agreed to disagree. Every now and then when we're out together we'll encounter the rare merchant that doesn't accept credit card. Then she'll spot me with her cash. Otherwise we'll typically use our joint credit card. When she is out by herself she's much more likely to use the cash she always carries.
    - EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 5y ago
      70 years after plastic was invented, people are seriously been proud and think of themselves as progressive and tech savvy because they use plastic.

jjav 5y ago

> With say Venmo, I open the app, press a few buttons, and my friend has the money in seconds But they very much don't have the money yet. The transaction may have posted (if you happened to have connectivity) but it hasn't settled. It may be blocked in all kinds of ways before they actually get the money. Their account might be suspended. The payment processor may simply decide to never pay it (paypal being infamous for this). With cash, the moment the object and the bills change hands, the funds transfer has irrecovably settled without any external dependency being possible.

Sankozi 5y ago
> With cash, the moment the object and the bills change hands, the funds transfer has irrecovably settled without any external dependency being possible. It isn't even remotely true. You might get mugged, you might lose money, you might get counterfeit money.
- walterbell 5y ago
  Those are pre/post-transaction risks, not settlement risks. Cashless systems also have their own pre/post-transaction risks.