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> people who demand the entire government be thrown out That's not their demand? They want the government to stop imposing vax mandates and lockdowns. I'm sure

by hbn 5y ago

> people who demand the entire government be thrown out That's not their demand? They want the government to stop imposing vax mandates and lockdowns. I'm sure a lot of people also want Trudeau out, but I doubt if they lifted the restrictions like the UK did that the truckers would still stick around.

lovich 5y ago
It started as demands around mandate but then that Tamara Lich character gained prominence who is pushing an Albertan separatist movement
- hbn 5y ago
  I don't think one person gets to show up and take claim of the movement and make it about something else all of a sudden. It started because the Canadian government was requiring truckers to be vaccinated or else they would lose their jobs. If they get their way, the government says "fine you don't need the vaccine," and the protests continue to stick around then the "what are they supposed to do" argument might hold water. But so far the only government response is to call them racist/transphobic/islamophobic/whatever buzzword gets you good PR.
  - lovich 5y ago
    I mean I’d agree that you can’t just show up and claim you lead the movement, but she showed up, organized truckers to get to Ottawa, and ran the fund that got millions in donations for the convoy. She may not be too boss but she certainly has some non trivial representation of the group. > If they get their way, the government says "fine you don't need the vaccine," and the protests continue to stick around then the "what are they supposed to do" argument might hold water. That’s just capitulating to their incorrect ideas that covid isn’t real or isn’t dangerous and the vaccines are, which is a non starter. So assuming that they aren’t going to capitulate to the protestors what should the government be doing? This still feels very low touch compared to how most other protests are handled
    - henrikschroder 5y ago
      > That’s just capitulating to their incorrect ideas that covid isn’t real or isn’t dangerous and the vaccines are Stop conflating anti-vaxx with anti-mandate. There are plenty of vaccinated people who participated in the protests because they think mandates are a step too far. The mandates for truckers were the original trigger for the protests, and the primary demand was to remove them.
      - lovich 5y ago
        > Stop conflating anti-vaxx with anti-mandate. I didn’t at first but the majority of “anti mandate” folk I run into then start slipping things into the conversation like “the vaccines don’t even work” which makes me think the anti mandate movement is just anti vaxxers with a mask on.(pun not intended) I also happen to think being legitimately anti mandate is an incorrect idea about how covid and viruses spread as we’ve seen leaving it up to people to decide means they just make our hospital networks break down. It’s pretty much a distinction without a difference to me when looking at anti vaxxers, anti maskers, or anti mandate groups
        AdrianB1 5y ago
        Anecdotical evidence only, but the people in my country that I know to be anti-mandate are all triple-vaccinated. We are quite used with vaccines, we kind of understand to some degree how they work and we decided to use it, same as masks and other measures, but most of these people are anti-mandates. We lived under a Communism regime and many people died fighting it, some of us still remember and are marked for life by a fear of government mandates of any kind. Younger people don't remember, so we are also split on this matter, but there is a simple explanation for that.
  - tclancy 5y ago
    Unfortunately, that is how populism works. One person can do that.
rescripting 5y ago
It was part of their demands. They laid it all out in the MOU before the protests started. > CTV cited Bauder saying that he hoped the signed MoU would convince Elections Canada to trigger an election, which is not constitutionally possible. In this pseudolegal document, CU called on the "SCGGC" to cease all vaccine mandates, reemploy all employees terminated due to vaccination status, and rescind all fines imposed for non-compliance with public health orders.[46] If this failed, the MoU called on the "SCGGC" to dissolve the government, and name members of the CU to form a Canadian Citizens Committee (CCC), which is beyond the constitutional powers of either the Governor General or the Senate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_convoy_protest#Planning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_convoy_protest#Planning
seemack 5y ago
Except it was? They released an MOU at the start of this that explicitly called for the resignation of the current government if they were not willing to immediately lift the Covid19 mandates. In the case of a refusal to lift the mandates, it demanded that a new government be formed of representatives from the Senate and, incredibly, representatives from the convoy.

by hbn 5y ago

lovich 5y ago

It started as demands around mandate but then that Tamara Lich character gained prominence who is pushing an Albertan separatist movement

hbn 5y ago
I don't think one person gets to show up and take claim of the movement and make it about something else all of a sudden. It started because the Canadian government was requiring truckers to be vaccinated or else they would lose their jobs. If they get their way, the government says "fine you don't need the vaccine," and the protests continue to stick around then the "what are they supposed to do" argument might hold water. But so far the only government response is to call them racist/transphobic/islamophobic/whatever buzzword gets you good PR.
- lovich 5y ago
  I mean I’d agree that you can’t just show up and claim you lead the movement, but she showed up, organized truckers to get to Ottawa, and ran the fund that got millions in donations for the convoy. She may not be too boss but she certainly has some non trivial representation of the group. > If they get their way, the government says "fine you don't need the vaccine," and the protests continue to stick around then the "what are they supposed to do" argument might hold water. That’s just capitulating to their incorrect ideas that covid isn’t real or isn’t dangerous and the vaccines are, which is a non starter. So assuming that they aren’t going to capitulate to the protestors what should the government be doing? This still feels very low touch compared to how most other protests are handled
  - henrikschroder 5y ago
    > That’s just capitulating to their incorrect ideas that covid isn’t real or isn’t dangerous and the vaccines are Stop conflating anti-vaxx with anti-mandate. There are plenty of vaccinated people who participated in the protests because they think mandates are a step too far. The mandates for truckers were the original trigger for the protests, and the primary demand was to remove them.
    - lovich 5y ago
      > Stop conflating anti-vaxx with anti-mandate. I didn’t at first but the majority of “anti mandate” folk I run into then start slipping things into the conversation like “the vaccines don’t even work” which makes me think the anti mandate movement is just anti vaxxers with a mask on.(pun not intended) I also happen to think being legitimately anti mandate is an incorrect idea about how covid and viruses spread as we’ve seen leaving it up to people to decide means they just make our hospital networks break down. It’s pretty much a distinction without a difference to me when looking at anti vaxxers, anti maskers, or anti mandate groups
      - AdrianB1 5y ago
        Anecdotical evidence only, but the people in my country that I know to be anti-mandate are all triple-vaccinated. We are quite used with vaccines, we kind of understand to some degree how they work and we decided to use it, same as masks and other measures, but most of these people are anti-mandates. We lived under a Communism regime and many people died fighting it, some of us still remember and are marked for life by a fear of government mandates of any kind. Younger people don't remember, so we are also split on this matter, but there is a simple explanation for that.
- tclancy 5y ago
  Unfortunately, that is how populism works. One person can do that.

rescripting 5y ago

It was part of their demands. They laid it all out in the MOU before the protests started. > CTV cited Bauder saying that he hoped the signed MoU would convince Elections Canada to trigger an election, which is not constitutionally possible. In this pseudolegal document, CU called on the "SCGGC" to cease all vaccine mandates, reemploy all employees terminated due to vaccination status, and rescind all fines imposed for non-compliance with public health orders.[46] If this failed, the MoU called on the "SCGGC" to dissolve the government, and name members of the CU to form a Canadian Citizens Committee (CCC), which is beyond the constitutional powers of either the Governor General or the Senate. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_convoy_protest#Planning https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canada_convoy_protest#Planning

seemack 5y ago

Except it was? They released an MOU at the start of this that explicitly called for the resignation of the current government if they were not willing to immediately lift the Covid19 mandates. In the case of a refusal to lift the mandates, it demanded that a new government be formed of representatives from the Senate and, incredibly, representatives from the convoy.