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These concerns aren't real...any privacy you have left is an illusion of privacy, not actual privacy. This is Wrong. Our privacy is only actually gone when we

These concerns aren't real...any privacy you have left is an illusion of privacy, not actual privacy. This is Wrong. Our privacy is only actually gone when we consciously decide to give it away, or throw our hands up and say "oh well, there's nothing we can do". Facebook Connect isn't bad in and of itself, and neither is central authentication. But a lot of people understandably don't trust Facebook to manage their identity for them and would prefer to manage it themselves. It's still perfectly possible to maintain reasonable privacy on the web, and any site or product that doesn't at least give me the option of doing so isn't a site or product I'm interested in using.

bretpiatt 15y ago
What do you consider reasonable privacy? This doesn't just apply to the web. Do you use a credit card to pay for things or do you always use cash? Your purchasing behavior is being collected and tracked. Do you have a loan for anything? Your income, address, and your ability to pay on time is tracked. If you always pay cash and avoid having loans or anything you need to manage your credit history for, you are part of a small paranoid minority. On the web.. do you log on from an Internet access account that is yours or are you always using public wi-fi? If you log on from your own account your ISP is tracking where you visit. Do you use Google or Bing for search or DDG? Your behavior is being tracked there already. If you never search with Google or Bing you're part of a small paranoid minority. Even if you choose to not participate in information sharing with any of the products you use it is being gathered anyways by the semi-static data you share just by being online. This includes if you browse with cookies turned off -- if they're on forget about it, any privacy you have is a complete illusion. Do you carry a cellphone? Do you run around with GPS turned on? Your carrier is already collecting this information. If you avoid this behavior you're part of a small paranoid minority. Privacy is an illusion. This isn't a bad thing. It is good as it allows services to tailor their interactions with you to improve your experience. Time to welcome the benefits of sharing .. what do you have to hide?
- seabee 15y ago
  "What do you have to hide" is the most naive and/or disingenuous rebuttal ever seen in a privacy discussion. "What do you have to fear" is a more honest one. As it turns out, there are plenty of malicious actors you have to fear. Private investigators or fraudsters blagging private records. Identity theft. Embarrassing details coming out you'd rather your family didn't see. But since you have nothing to hide, why not tell me your contact details, your bank details? If you refuse then I think we have established that some things should be kept under control rather than wantonly shared.
  - bretpiatt 15y ago
    The "what do you have to hide" question isn't disingenuous it is in the context of the discussion.. Facebook Connect isn't giving your bank account details to anyone. That is much more disingenuous of a comment trying to equate the two. An example of the type of sharing it will do and where sharing information is good. I use Spotify and that tracks the music I listen to. If a concert ticket sales site was integrated and had access to the same information when I visit it they'll be able to show me relevant content -- this is a good thing. If you have behaviors on the Internet or in public you're trying to hide from people maybe you shouldn't be doing them. Time for some personal reflection here. Eric Schmidt was pretty direct on this and caught a lot of flack for it because people don't like being held accountable.
- zheng 15y ago
  My credit card company can not legally sell my purchasing history to the highest bidder.[1] Google can not tracking my searching if I am connected via a public proxy (very common, in fact) Most people don't have smartphones, and most don't leave the GPS on. I'm willing to guess that taking the union of all of your "small paranoid minorities" gives a pretty large minority, in fact. --- [1] - http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/regpcg.htm http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/regpcg.htm
  - seabee 15y ago
    The carriers can still locate you without GPS using triangulation. But that kind of data requires a court order to access, so not a serious issue. Anecdotally there are lots of people who care about a specific privacy issue based on a personal experience they have had. One shreds everything they have, another uses an unregistered prepaid phone, another refuses to Facebook. But no one person does all of these things. I can't possibly say anything more than human perception of risk is shaped hugely by experience :)
- johnthedebs 15y ago
  As seabee said, "'What do you have to hide' is the most naive and/or disingenuous rebuttal ever seen in a privacy discussion." But to respond to your first point, I consider reasonable privacy to mean, very simply, that I understand the consequences of whatever action I take (because they are made up front and clear) and that I have choices in controlling the flow of my personal information (because options are available). Whether I choose to be in the "small paranoid minority" is my own decision and I should have the freedom to make it.

bretpiatt 15y ago

What do you consider reasonable privacy? This doesn't just apply to the web. Do you use a credit card to pay for things or do you always use cash? Your purchasing behavior is being collected and tracked. Do you have a loan for anything? Your income, address, and your ability to pay on time is tracked. If you always pay cash and avoid having loans or anything you need to manage your credit history for, you are part of a small paranoid minority. On the web.. do you log on from an Internet access account that is yours or are you always using public wi-fi? If you log on from your own account your ISP is tracking where you visit. Do you use Google or Bing for search or DDG? Your behavior is being tracked there already. If you never search with Google or Bing you're part of a small paranoid minority. Even if you choose to not participate in information sharing with any of the products you use it is being gathered anyways by the semi-static data you share just by being online. This includes if you browse with cookies turned off -- if they're on forget about it, any privacy you have is a complete illusion. Do you carry a cellphone? Do you run around with GPS turned on? Your carrier is already collecting this information. If you avoid this behavior you're part of a small paranoid minority. Privacy is an illusion. This isn't a bad thing. It is good as it allows services to tailor their interactions with you to improve your experience. Time to welcome the benefits of sharing .. what do you have to hide?

seabee 15y ago
"What do you have to hide" is the most naive and/or disingenuous rebuttal ever seen in a privacy discussion. "What do you have to fear" is a more honest one. As it turns out, there are plenty of malicious actors you have to fear. Private investigators or fraudsters blagging private records. Identity theft. Embarrassing details coming out you'd rather your family didn't see. But since you have nothing to hide, why not tell me your contact details, your bank details? If you refuse then I think we have established that some things should be kept under control rather than wantonly shared.
- bretpiatt 15y ago
  The "what do you have to hide" question isn't disingenuous it is in the context of the discussion.. Facebook Connect isn't giving your bank account details to anyone. That is much more disingenuous of a comment trying to equate the two. An example of the type of sharing it will do and where sharing information is good. I use Spotify and that tracks the music I listen to. If a concert ticket sales site was integrated and had access to the same information when I visit it they'll be able to show me relevant content -- this is a good thing. If you have behaviors on the Internet or in public you're trying to hide from people maybe you shouldn't be doing them. Time for some personal reflection here. Eric Schmidt was pretty direct on this and caught a lot of flack for it because people don't like being held accountable.
zheng 15y ago
My credit card company can not legally sell my purchasing history to the highest bidder.[1] Google can not tracking my searching if I am connected via a public proxy (very common, in fact) Most people don't have smartphones, and most don't leave the GPS on. I'm willing to guess that taking the union of all of your "small paranoid minorities" gives a pretty large minority, in fact. --- [1] - http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/regpcg.htm http://www.federalreserve.gov/bankinforeg/regpcg.htm
- seabee 15y ago
  The carriers can still locate you without GPS using triangulation. But that kind of data requires a court order to access, so not a serious issue. Anecdotally there are lots of people who care about a specific privacy issue based on a personal experience they have had. One shreds everything they have, another uses an unregistered prepaid phone, another refuses to Facebook. But no one person does all of these things. I can't possibly say anything more than human perception of risk is shaped hugely by experience :)
johnthedebs 15y ago
As seabee said, "'What do you have to hide' is the most naive and/or disingenuous rebuttal ever seen in a privacy discussion." But to respond to your first point, I consider reasonable privacy to mean, very simply, that I understand the consequences of whatever action I take (because they are made up front and clear) and that I have choices in controlling the flow of my personal information (because options are available). Whether I choose to be in the "small paranoid minority" is my own decision and I should have the freedom to make it.