4 ms·
This is a very well known agreement. Search for writing on HW Bush's Secretary of State James Baker agreeing to Gorbachev that NATO would expand "not another in
by cowwander 5y ago
This is a very well known agreement. Search for writing on HW Bush's Secretary of State James Baker agreeing to Gorbachev that NATO would expand "not another inch" eastward. Much has been written about this, and it is considered ~first principles~ level knowledge on the topic of Russia/Ukraine. Putin came of political age when that agreement was reneged, and it is speculated that this is weighs heavily on his list of grievances with the US.
- simplyaccont 5y agocan you please show me this agreement ?
- dragonwriter 5y ago> This is a very well known agreement. It's a very well known non-agreement. > James Baker agreeing to Gorbachev that NATO would expand "not another inch" eastward That's...not how binding international agreements are formed.
- cowwander 5y ago>That's...not how binding international agreements are formed. Thank you, this is exactly the point I arrived at as well. It's an admission that the primary tool of the US State Department is to make friendly, reasonable verbal agreements in front of the press and public, then do the dirty move they really wanted to do when the news cycle has moved past. This maintains the appearance to the US public that their foreign policy is always just, and never cynical or deceitful.
- justsomehnguy 5y agoUS: says one thing and do the other one EVERYONE: claps RUSSIA: says one thing and do the other one EVERYONE: gasps
- darkarmani 5y agoYour false equivalence is around Russia INVADING a country after saying it was just doing military exercises.
- justsomehnguy 5y agoIt is amusing to hear that in a comment chain about how US told it wouldn't expand to the East yet it did and how the current situation is a direct consequence of those talks.
- darkarmani 5y agoHow has the "US" expanded to the East? The US is bound by shorelines. I think your slip of the tongue is revealing of the propaganda against NATO. It's a membership driven club unlike actual invasion and annexation. Sovereign countries choose to join the club. Besides, why would it be amusing for Russia to punish Ukraine for (perceived) grievances against the US?
- dragonwriter 5y ago> how the current situation is a direct consequence of those talks. Putin just said it's a consequence of Lenin creating the fake entity of Ukraine on territory that should be Russian exacerbated by Stalin transferring additional territory that should be Russian to the fake entity of Ukraine. Sounds like Russia (or at least Putin, who definitely has a l’etat, c’est moi thing going on), thinks the fundamental problem is the fall of the Russian Empire, not NATO, which is just an impediment to restoring the Empire.
- justsomehnguy 5y ago> Putin just said And the other president said: > "Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest -and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault." At least that one really believed himself. If you believe in Putin's words directed to the most dumb (and thus extremely patriotic) citizens of his [own] country then I have no stakes here anymore.
- deleted 5y ago[deleted]
- cowwander 5y ago
- simplyaccont 5y agoa couple of people chit-chatting doesn't become a binding agreement.
- cowwander 5y ago
- simplyaccont 5y agoso far Russia is the one who is doing all the crying
- dang 5y agoPlease stop posting unsubstantive and/or flamebait comments. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
- dang 5y agoWe've banned this account for breaking the HN guidelines. Please don't create accounts to do that with. If you don't want to be banned, you're welcome to email hn@ycombinator.com and give us reason to believe that you'll follow the rules in the future. They're here: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html.
- throwaway_4ever 5y agoThe absolute hubris to declare this "first principles level knowledge on the topic of Russia/Ukraine" and telling people to catch up on it first and yet get it clearly wrong making false statements. Gorbachev is literally on record saying there was NOT an agreement. You've barely made it past complete ignorance on this history.
- avgcorrection 5y agohttps://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017-12-12/nato-expansion-what-gorbachev-heard-western-leaders-early https://nsarchive.gwu.edu/briefing-book/russia-programs/2017...