4 ms·

I know you're just sharing your anecdote, but the vast majority (over 80%) of Americans live in urban areas. Many cities do in fact see violent crime. Although

by rank0 5y ago

I know you're just sharing your anecdote, but the vast majority (over 80%) of Americans live in urban areas. Many cities do in fact see violent crime. Although I don't own a firearm myself, I totally understand why someone else would want one in my neighborhood. Violent crime is not unusual where I live. Don't let your bubble from small town USA distort your view of the entire country.

TameAntelope 5y ago
It's disingenuous as hell to clump "cities" together, as if going to Anacostia in DC is the same as going to Georgetown. If you live in a city and carry a gun, you're not protecting yourself, you're escalating the violence. Getting robbed is exceedingly rare anywhere in the US, and trying to stop a robbery with a gun is among the stupidest things a person can do. Further, robbing someone doesn't mean you should die, and killing someone over property is evil beyond comprehension. No society should support it, and very few do (nearly nowhere in the US, for example).
- whimsicalism 5y ago
  I think most people not from DC will not even know where Anacostia is, you can probably just say SE or something.
- rank0 5y ago
  > It's disingenuous as hell to clump "cities" together, as if going to Anacostia in DC is the same as going to Georgetown. I don't understand what you're arguing. Cities unequivocally see more crime than rural areas, even in nicer areas within a city (which may only be 1 mile from the "bad parts"). > Getting robbed is exceedingly rare anywhere in the US, and trying to stop a robbery with a gun is among the stupidest things a person can do. > Further, robbing someone doesn't mean you should die, and killing someone over property is evil beyond comprehension. No society should support it, and very few do (nearly nowhere in the US, for example). 1. Not everywhere is the same. Just because you feel comfortable in your bubble doesn't mean that owning a firearm is a ridiculous proposition for all. In my past 10 years of living in Atlanta, I've witnessed or been a victim of enough crime to fully understand why some folks here choose to own a gun. 2. The second part is totally ridiculous. Nobody is arguing that all thieves should die.
  - TameAntelope 5y ago
    Haha, yeah a lot of people are arguing that thieves should die. And no, “cities“ are not one solid, unbroken group, they are not universally more dangerous than rural areas.
    - rank0 5y ago
      Where are they arguing that? We’re moved far away from OP. The original point that Americans “live in fear” is what I object to. You’ve turned the conversation into something else entirely. You think the entire country of 350M lives in fear? Seriously? I get that HN loves to shit on Americans but what exactly is your point here? My first comment says “many cities see crime” somehow that became “all cities see crime everywhere” in your mind.
      - TameAntelope 5y ago
        I'm American, and I firmly believe that anyone who carries a gun in their daily life is living in abject and completely irrational fear based on a fundamental, tragic innumeracy. And if you think me saying "And no, “cities“ are not one solid, unbroken group" means “all cities see crime everywhere”, you've gotten yourself very lost, friend.
        rank0 5y ago
        This describes <1% of Americans. You seem to be lost yourself. What exactly do you disagree with me on from the original comment?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]
whimsicalism 5y ago
You are still quite unlikely to be a victim of violent crime by a stranger if you are not actively involved in the drug trade in the city. Violent crime rates in the city very low relative to the past. You are much more likely to be injured or killed in a suburban car accident than an urban assault/murder/mugging.
- kkielhofner 5y ago
  Exactly. In my age range (25-44) I'm more likely to die by heart disease (9.8%), cancer (10%), suicide (11%, most by firearm), and unintentional injury (34.2%) (plus "other" at 20%). Homicide is the cause of 6.2% of deaths in my age range and in the highest percentage of the population (10-24) it's still outpaced by suicide and unintentional injury. After age 45 homicide isn't even in the top 10. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-508.pdf
kkielhofner 5y ago
My bubble extends well beyond "small town USA". Paradoxically, I don't have a single friend in Chicago, Denver, Miami, Los Angeles, etc that carries a gun. These cities run the spectrum of gun laws and all have higher crime rates than a small town yet fear of violent crime runs higher in communities where it's non-existent. This is anecdotal but statistics back it up. Most gun ownership is rural, personal protection is often cited as the primary factor, most gun ownership is handguns (i.e. not hunting), and white males (small town friends) love guns and carry everyday. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-dem...
- rank0 5y ago
  > My bubble extends well beyond "small town USA". Paradoxically, I don't have a single friend in Chicago, Denver, Miami, Los Angeles, etc that carries a gun. And yet, I know people in each of those cities that own firearms. > This is anecdotal but statistics back it up. Most gun ownership is rural... The study you cited doesn't support that claim. What the study says is "Among those who live in rural areas, 46% say they are gun owners, compared with 28% of those who live in the suburbs and 19% in urban areas." You're failing to consider that <20% of the population lives in rural areas according to the latest 2010 census: https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/geo-areas/urban-rural/ua-facts.html https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/g... This means <10% of the population is a rural gun owner. Your study also states "When it comes to hunting, however, rural gun owners are far more likely than their urban or suburban counterparts to say it is as an important reason they own a gun; 48% of gun owners in rural areas say this." Also note the study says 30% of rural firearm owners do so for sport shooting, 15% as part of a collection, and 8% as a requirement for their job. Less than half of rural gun owners do so solely for protection. All in all, <4% of the US population owns a gun in a rural area solely for protection. That's a pretty far cry from your original claim that Americans live in a culture of fear.

by rank0 5y ago

TameAntelope 5y ago

It's disingenuous as hell to clump "cities" together, as if going to Anacostia in DC is the same as going to Georgetown. If you live in a city and carry a gun, you're not protecting yourself, you're escalating the violence. Getting robbed is exceedingly rare anywhere in the US, and trying to stop a robbery with a gun is among the stupidest things a person can do. Further, robbing someone doesn't mean you should die, and killing someone over property is evil beyond comprehension. No society should support it, and very few do (nearly nowhere in the US, for example).

whimsicalism 5y ago
I think most people not from DC will not even know where Anacostia is, you can probably just say SE or something.
rank0 5y ago
> It's disingenuous as hell to clump "cities" together, as if going to Anacostia in DC is the same as going to Georgetown. I don't understand what you're arguing. Cities unequivocally see more crime than rural areas, even in nicer areas within a city (which may only be 1 mile from the "bad parts"). > Getting robbed is exceedingly rare anywhere in the US, and trying to stop a robbery with a gun is among the stupidest things a person can do. > Further, robbing someone doesn't mean you should die, and killing someone over property is evil beyond comprehension. No society should support it, and very few do (nearly nowhere in the US, for example). 1. Not everywhere is the same. Just because you feel comfortable in your bubble doesn't mean that owning a firearm is a ridiculous proposition for all. In my past 10 years of living in Atlanta, I've witnessed or been a victim of enough crime to fully understand why some folks here choose to own a gun. 2. The second part is totally ridiculous. Nobody is arguing that all thieves should die.
- TameAntelope 5y ago
  Haha, yeah a lot of people are arguing that thieves should die. And no, “cities“ are not one solid, unbroken group, they are not universally more dangerous than rural areas.
  - rank0 5y ago
    Where are they arguing that? We’re moved far away from OP. The original point that Americans “live in fear” is what I object to. You’ve turned the conversation into something else entirely. You think the entire country of 350M lives in fear? Seriously? I get that HN loves to shit on Americans but what exactly is your point here? My first comment says “many cities see crime” somehow that became “all cities see crime everywhere” in your mind.
    - TameAntelope 5y ago
      I'm American, and I firmly believe that anyone who carries a gun in their daily life is living in abject and completely irrational fear based on a fundamental, tragic innumeracy. And if you think me saying "And no, “cities“ are not one solid, unbroken group" means “all cities see crime everywhere”, you've gotten yourself very lost, friend.
      - rank0 5y ago
        This describes <1% of Americans. You seem to be lost yourself. What exactly do you disagree with me on from the original comment?
        deleted 5y ago
        [deleted]

whimsicalism 5y ago

You are still quite unlikely to be a victim of violent crime by a stranger if you are not actively involved in the drug trade in the city. Violent crime rates in the city very low relative to the past. You are much more likely to be injured or killed in a suburban car accident than an urban assault/murder/mugging.

kkielhofner 5y ago
Exactly. In my age range (25-44) I'm more likely to die by heart disease (9.8%), cancer (10%), suicide (11%, most by firearm), and unintentional injury (34.2%) (plus "other" at 20%). Homicide is the cause of 6.2% of deaths in my age range and in the highest percentage of the population (10-24) it's still outpaced by suicide and unintentional injury. After age 45 homicide isn't even in the top 10. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-508.pdf https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/data/nvsr/nvsr70/nvsr70-09-508.pdf

kkielhofner 5y ago

My bubble extends well beyond "small town USA". Paradoxically, I don't have a single friend in Chicago, Denver, Miami, Los Angeles, etc that carries a gun. These cities run the spectrum of gun laws and all have higher crime rates than a small town yet fear of violent crime runs higher in communities where it's non-existent. This is anecdotal but statistics back it up. Most gun ownership is rural, personal protection is often cited as the primary factor, most gun ownership is handguns (i.e. not hunting), and white males (small town friends) love guns and carry everyday. https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/ https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2017/06/22/the-dem...

rank0 5y ago
> My bubble extends well beyond "small town USA". Paradoxically, I don't have a single friend in Chicago, Denver, Miami, Los Angeles, etc that carries a gun. And yet, I know people in each of those cities that own firearms. > This is anecdotal but statistics back it up. Most gun ownership is rural... The study you cited doesn't support that claim. What the study says is "Among those who live in rural areas, 46% say they are gun owners, compared with 28% of those who live in the suburbs and 19% in urban areas." You're failing to consider that <20% of the population lives in rural areas according to the latest 2010 census: https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/geo-areas/urban-rural/ua-facts.html https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/geography/guidance/g... This means <10% of the population is a rural gun owner. Your study also states "When it comes to hunting, however, rural gun owners are far more likely than their urban or suburban counterparts to say it is as an important reason they own a gun; 48% of gun owners in rural areas say this." Also note the study says 30% of rural firearm owners do so for sport shooting, 15% as part of a collection, and 8% as a requirement for their job. Less than half of rural gun owners do so solely for protection. All in all, <4% of the US population owns a gun in a rural area solely for protection. That's a pretty far cry from your original claim that Americans live in a culture of fear.