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> The EU still has to consider how other nations will react to their policies. To be clear, their policy is "we will not ban nations from joining on the basis

> The EU still has to consider how other nations will react to their policies. To be clear, their policy is "we will not ban nations from joining on the basis that a non-EU nation objects". I think they're aware that this may make some nations unhappy, but it's better than the alternative, which would make it very difficult to ever expand the EU (beyond how difficult it is already). > Just think about how much we freaked out over the Cuban Missile Crisis. Notice how that resolved though; the United States pledged (and followed through) with not invading or overthrowing Cuba. Cuba stayed as a USSR-aligned state on the border of the United States. Similarly in the Ukraine situation, Russia pledged to respect the sovereignty of Ukraine if they voluntarily handed over the nuclear weapons the USSR had planted there. Unlike the Cuban Missile Crisis, Russia has no intention of following through with its promises. > If China struck a deal with Canada to put a military base in Vancouver, we'd lose our shit, but we act shocked and insulted when Russia does the same. I agree that the US would panic, but Ukraine didn't strike any deals. They weren't in the process of joining NATO (and likely wouldn't be admitted due to "external territorial disputes") and they weren't in the process of joining the EU. In addition, the EU doesn't put military bases anywhere. The analogous situation would be if the United States invaded Canada because China refused to promise that they wouldn't make exclusive trade deals with Canada, and also refused to promise to remove soldiers from Hong Kong because they made the US feel unsafe.

busterarm 5y ago
> I agree that the US would panic, but Ukraine didn't strike any deals. They weren't in the process of joining NATO (and likely wouldn't be admitted due to "external territorial disputes") and they weren't in the process of joining the EU. In addition, the EU doesn't put military bases anywhere. This is actually untrue. Ukraine has repeatedly stated their intention to become a NATO member state. It's even written into their Constitution. The Vilnius Summit joint declaration (which Ukraine's pro-Russia President at the time did not sign and ended up with his government being removed...) included language from the EU affirming Ukraine's intention to become a member state. Ukraine is currently preparing to put in its application to join the EU and has been formally working on this since Jan 2021. Ever since the Eastern Partnership (2009) and Ukraine-EU Association Agreement (2012), Russia has been publicly condemning this chosen course of action. Both NATO and the EU have been courting Ukraine since the early 2000s. You should check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 it's worth a watch.
- agapon 5y ago
  > It's even written into their Constitution. It's you who is bullshitting here. That was not in Ukrainian Constitution until Russia invaded and occupied parts of Ukraine. Before that Ukraine declared itself as a completely neutral state relying entirely on the Budapest Guarantees.
  - busterarm 5y ago
    I mentioned it first but I didn't put that at the front of the chain of events. Ukraine and EU/NATO have been courting each other since the Orange Revolution. EU and NATO ascension were at the top of Viktor Yushchenko's priority list from the day he won. He was working on a NATO membership action plan right up until Victor Yanukovych became PM and the divided government killed that proposal. Then he tried again in 2008 and Russia finally came out in full opposition.

busterarm 5y ago

> I agree that the US would panic, but Ukraine didn't strike any deals. They weren't in the process of joining NATO (and likely wouldn't be admitted due to "external territorial disputes") and they weren't in the process of joining the EU. In addition, the EU doesn't put military bases anywhere. This is actually untrue. Ukraine has repeatedly stated their intention to become a NATO member state. It's even written into their Constitution. The Vilnius Summit joint declaration (which Ukraine's pro-Russia President at the time did not sign and ended up with his government being removed...) included language from the EU affirming Ukraine's intention to become a member state. Ukraine is currently preparing to put in its application to join the EU and has been formally working on this since Jan 2021. Ever since the Eastern Partnership (2009) and Ukraine-EU Association Agreement (2012), Russia has been publicly condemning this chosen course of action. Both NATO and the EU have been courting Ukraine since the early 2000s. You should check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrMiSQAGOS4 it's worth a watch.

agapon 5y ago
> It's even written into their Constitution. It's you who is bullshitting here. That was not in Ukrainian Constitution until Russia invaded and occupied parts of Ukraine. Before that Ukraine declared itself as a completely neutral state relying entirely on the Budapest Guarantees.
- busterarm 5y ago
  I mentioned it first but I didn't put that at the front of the chain of events. Ukraine and EU/NATO have been courting each other since the Orange Revolution. EU and NATO ascension were at the top of Viktor Yushchenko's priority list from the day he won. He was working on a NATO membership action plan right up until Victor Yanukovych became PM and the divided government killed that proposal. Then he tried again in 2008 and Russia finally came out in full opposition.