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No one in the modern era has attempted to take a country with a population that's 1/3 of the invading country. If he incorporated Ukraine, that's 40 million an

No one in the modern era has attempted to take a country with a population that's 1/3 of the invading country. If he incorporated Ukraine, that's 40 million angry citizens. It would absolutely be the end of him especially because most Russians see Ukrainians as brothers. He justifies Luhansk, Donbass and Crimea because of the 2014 revolution and they fact they were always culturally Russian. Edit - I should also add that it's in Ukraine's interest to simply let these regions go. Prior to 2014, Ukrainian elections always flip-flopped between pro-Russian and pro-Western factions... Now that most of the pro-Russian support no longer votes in Ukrainian elections (due to being part of Russian or breakaway), Ukrainian politics are almost entire pro-Western.

jcranmer 5y ago
> No one in the modern era has attempted to take a country with a population that's 1/3 of the invading country. Saudi Arabia invading Yemen. Syria invading Lebanon is I think around the ⅓ mark. Iraq invading Iran--note that Iran was the larger country then. All of these are conflicts that were intended to induce suzerainty if not outright conquest, and all of these are undeniably in what you'd call the "modern era". Although I'll note that "modern era" is usually given as since about ~1789, which means we can throw in all of the wonderful aggression conflicts that make up World War II, such as Germany attempting to incorporate the populated bits of the USSR into its own territory, after killing off the current inhabitants of course. > they fact they were always culturally Russian. IIRC, he claims that Ukrainians are themselves no different from Russians, which means this gives him casus belli to incorporate all of Ukraine on the same grounds.
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  The Saudis aren't invading Yemen, they're just bombing and destabilizing it. Last I checked Lebanon is also still Lebanon, not Syria. > IIRC, he claims that Ukrainians are themselves no different from Russians Saying something and believing it are two different things. Also, it depends what you mean by 'no different'. Ethnically they're almost identical. Culturally close. But there is a bit of a difference, mainly that much of "Ukrainian" identity comes from regions that had been been invaded by both Poland-Lithuania and Austria-Hungary and spread to the rest of the country since independence. Anyhow, not even the Ukrainian President thinks Russia will invade all Ukraine...
  - jcranmer 5y ago
    > The Saudis aren't invading Yemen, they're just bombing and destabilizing it. Last I checked Lebanon is also still Lebanon, not Syria. The word you said was "attempted" which includes failed attempts as well as successful. There have been no successful attempts post-WW2 that I can think of, but that doesn't mean there haven't been any unsuccessful attempts. > Ethnically they're almost identical. Culturally close. You can say the same thing about the US and Canada. Yet Canada successfully resisted both US invasion attempts, and even today, you would likely get a pretty vehement response if you suggested that the US and Canada ought to be part of the same country.
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      >you would likely get a pretty vehement response if you suggested that the US and Canada ought to be part of the same country I live in Alberta... That statement is definitely not true lol.
      - mywittyname 5y ago
        In an abstract sense, sure. But once they start putting the nuts on the bolts, they are going to get cold feet. The USA is vastly different from Canada is many tangible ways. It's not the conservative utopia people think it is. Plus, given the political issues involved with integration of the two countries, I suspect serious concessions would need to be made by Canada.
        Mikeb85 5y ago
        > It's not the conservative utopia people think it is. And Canada's not the liberal paradise people think. We're leaving, personally. The quality of life here is pretty shit - think LA or Seattle cost of living (SF if you're in Vancouver or Toronto) with Nebraska wages (actually that would be generous)...
int_19h 5y ago
Most Russians very much don't see Ukrainians as brothers after 2014. Russian propaganda works reasonably well. As for angry citizens... for one thing, not all of those citizens will be angry, especially in central Ukraine. Not the majority, but enough to supply informants etc to keep the rest in check. But also, why do you say that no-one in the modern era has attempted that? This exact thing happened during WW2 - or is that not sufficiently "modern"? And if not, then what makes the difference?
- Mikeb85 5y ago
  > or is that not sufficiently "modern" When I say modern I think in the internet age. When everyone can communicate with everyone and information can be shared quickly. > Most Russians very much don't see Ukrainians as brothers after 2014. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/16/we-are-one-people-why-would-we-fight-our-brothers-russians-react-to-ukraine-war-threat-a76414 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/16/we-are-one-people-... All the Russians I know view Ukrainians as brothers and are against the idea of Slavs fighting Slavs. Anyhow I'm not spending the time to find a comprehensive poll but it's you believing the propaganda that a majority of Russians actually want to fight Ukrainians. > Russian propaganda works reasonably well. Yeah right, I've never met a Russian that believes any news, no matter the side lol. Ditto for Ukrainians. Distrust in authority is basically a cornerstone of Slavic culture...
  - int_19h 5y ago
    I'm Russian myself, and my extended family is mostly in Russia, so this is all speaking from very personal experience.
    - Mikeb85 5y ago
      So exactly what aspect of Russian propaganda do they believe? Or is it because they don't believe US propaganda? Because US news (Canadian as well) is way different than European news as well. Even Ukrainian news hasn't been as fear-mongering as US news...

jcranmer 5y ago

> No one in the modern era has attempted to take a country with a population that's 1/3 of the invading country. Saudi Arabia invading Yemen. Syria invading Lebanon is I think around the ⅓ mark. Iraq invading Iran--note that Iran was the larger country then. All of these are conflicts that were intended to induce suzerainty if not outright conquest, and all of these are undeniably in what you'd call the "modern era". Although I'll note that "modern era" is usually given as since about ~1789, which means we can throw in all of the wonderful aggression conflicts that make up World War II, such as Germany attempting to incorporate the populated bits of the USSR into its own territory, after killing off the current inhabitants of course. > they fact they were always culturally Russian. IIRC, he claims that Ukrainians are themselves no different from Russians, which means this gives him casus belli to incorporate all of Ukraine on the same grounds.

Mikeb85 5y ago
The Saudis aren't invading Yemen, they're just bombing and destabilizing it. Last I checked Lebanon is also still Lebanon, not Syria. > IIRC, he claims that Ukrainians are themselves no different from Russians Saying something and believing it are two different things. Also, it depends what you mean by 'no different'. Ethnically they're almost identical. Culturally close. But there is a bit of a difference, mainly that much of "Ukrainian" identity comes from regions that had been been invaded by both Poland-Lithuania and Austria-Hungary and spread to the rest of the country since independence. Anyhow, not even the Ukrainian President thinks Russia will invade all Ukraine...
- jcranmer 5y ago
  > The Saudis aren't invading Yemen, they're just bombing and destabilizing it. Last I checked Lebanon is also still Lebanon, not Syria. The word you said was "attempted" which includes failed attempts as well as successful. There have been no successful attempts post-WW2 that I can think of, but that doesn't mean there haven't been any unsuccessful attempts. > Ethnically they're almost identical. Culturally close. You can say the same thing about the US and Canada. Yet Canada successfully resisted both US invasion attempts, and even today, you would likely get a pretty vehement response if you suggested that the US and Canada ought to be part of the same country.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    >you would likely get a pretty vehement response if you suggested that the US and Canada ought to be part of the same country I live in Alberta... That statement is definitely not true lol.
    - mywittyname 5y ago
      In an abstract sense, sure. But once they start putting the nuts on the bolts, they are going to get cold feet. The USA is vastly different from Canada is many tangible ways. It's not the conservative utopia people think it is. Plus, given the political issues involved with integration of the two countries, I suspect serious concessions would need to be made by Canada.
      - Mikeb85 5y ago
        > It's not the conservative utopia people think it is. And Canada's not the liberal paradise people think. We're leaving, personally. The quality of life here is pretty shit - think LA or Seattle cost of living (SF if you're in Vancouver or Toronto) with Nebraska wages (actually that would be generous)...

int_19h 5y ago

Most Russians very much don't see Ukrainians as brothers after 2014. Russian propaganda works reasonably well. As for angry citizens... for one thing, not all of those citizens will be angry, especially in central Ukraine. Not the majority, but enough to supply informants etc to keep the rest in check. But also, why do you say that no-one in the modern era has attempted that? This exact thing happened during WW2 - or is that not sufficiently "modern"? And if not, then what makes the difference?

Mikeb85 5y ago
> or is that not sufficiently "modern" When I say modern I think in the internet age. When everyone can communicate with everyone and information can be shared quickly. > Most Russians very much don't see Ukrainians as brothers after 2014. https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/16/we-are-one-people-why-would-we-fight-our-brothers-russians-react-to-ukraine-war-threat-a76414 https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/02/16/we-are-one-people-... All the Russians I know view Ukrainians as brothers and are against the idea of Slavs fighting Slavs. Anyhow I'm not spending the time to find a comprehensive poll but it's you believing the propaganda that a majority of Russians actually want to fight Ukrainians. > Russian propaganda works reasonably well. Yeah right, I've never met a Russian that believes any news, no matter the side lol. Ditto for Ukrainians. Distrust in authority is basically a cornerstone of Slavic culture...
- int_19h 5y ago
  I'm Russian myself, and my extended family is mostly in Russia, so this is all speaking from very personal experience.
  - Mikeb85 5y ago
    So exactly what aspect of Russian propaganda do they believe? Or is it because they don't believe US propaganda? Because US news (Canadian as well) is way different than European news as well. Even Ukrainian news hasn't been as fear-mongering as US news...