6 ms·

Your argument may be valid in 30 years when the automated cars have improved, and more importantly, on roads where human driving has been outlawed. Until then,

Your argument may be valid in 30 years when the automated cars have improved, and more importantly, on roads where human driving has been outlawed. Until then, when a semi-automated car comes to a stop sign, they should stop.

JoeAltmaier 5y ago
Even if no one is there? I'll send you a horn and flag in the post, for the next drive.
- cout 5y ago
  Yes, in states where stopping at a stop sign is the norm, come to a stop even when no one is there. This ensures predictability, which is important for both driver and pedestrian safety. If you are in a state like Massachusetts where a rolling stop is the norm, then for the same reason it's best if the car does not come to a complete stop, regardless of whether someone is there, because it makes your vehicle's motion more predictable. Ideally laws in those states should also be adjusted to reflect what people actually do.
  - JoeAltmaier 5y ago
    I disagree. If no one else is at the intersection, rolling stops make no impact on safety. There's no one there to predict anything.
    - cout 5y ago
      It is important to know both that no one else is at the intersection and that no one else is approaching the intersection. Consider a two-way stop where an approaching car is exceeding the legal speed limit (as is the norm everywhere I've driven in the US); would you still argue that a rolling stop makes no (zero) impact on safety?
    - Swenrekcah 5y ago
      The problem is determining whether or not nobody is there.
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    Genuine question: are there any states where full-stopping at a stop sign is the norm whether or not anyone is there? I've done a whole lot of cross-country driving and I've never been to a place where the norm is coming to a complete stop even if there is traffic present.
    - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
      Well, if no one is there, naturally you won't be ticketed for doing a rolling stop. Now, if a cop saw you do a rolling stop because you thought there was no one there, he could stop you (in KS anyways).
      - cout 5y ago
        In my state (SC), the people I personally know who have been ticketed for a rolling stop have typically been the only vehicle at the intersection (sometimes the only vehicle on the entire road). I suspect this is because the infraction is more visible (it's illegal either way afaik).
      - throwaway894345 5y ago
        I'm not talking about "if no one is there will you be ticketed", I'm asking where is it the norm to come to a full stop even if there are multiple people at the intersection? In the midwest and southwest it's common to "California roll" through a stop sign, and given the name of the maneuver, I assume this is also common out west.
    - cout 5y ago
      My first time visiting Boston I came to a four-way stop leaving the airport. I was surprised that not a single car came to a full stop in the other three directions. They did not yield to the vehicle on the right as is the norm in my state; since I had come to a full stop, they perceived me as voluntarily yielding the right-of-way. When I explained to a local that the other drivers weren't yielding, the reply was "oh, you didn't come to a full stop, did you? Don't do that.".
      - 5y ago

JoeAltmaier 5y ago

Even if no one is there? I'll send you a horn and flag in the post, for the next drive.

cout 5y ago
Yes, in states where stopping at a stop sign is the norm, come to a stop even when no one is there. This ensures predictability, which is important for both driver and pedestrian safety. If you are in a state like Massachusetts where a rolling stop is the norm, then for the same reason it's best if the car does not come to a complete stop, regardless of whether someone is there, because it makes your vehicle's motion more predictable. Ideally laws in those states should also be adjusted to reflect what people actually do.
- JoeAltmaier 5y ago
  I disagree. If no one else is at the intersection, rolling stops make no impact on safety. There's no one there to predict anything.
  - cout 5y ago
    It is important to know both that no one else is at the intersection and that no one else is approaching the intersection. Consider a two-way stop where an approaching car is exceeding the legal speed limit (as is the norm everywhere I've driven in the US); would you still argue that a rolling stop makes no (zero) impact on safety?
  - Swenrekcah 5y ago
    The problem is determining whether or not nobody is there.
- throwaway894345 5y ago
  Genuine question: are there any states where full-stopping at a stop sign is the norm whether or not anyone is there? I've done a whole lot of cross-country driving and I've never been to a place where the norm is coming to a complete stop even if there is traffic present.
  - BenjiWiebe 5y ago
    Well, if no one is there, naturally you won't be ticketed for doing a rolling stop. Now, if a cop saw you do a rolling stop because you thought there was no one there, he could stop you (in KS anyways).
    - cout 5y ago
      In my state (SC), the people I personally know who have been ticketed for a rolling stop have typically been the only vehicle at the intersection (sometimes the only vehicle on the entire road). I suspect this is because the infraction is more visible (it's illegal either way afaik).
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      I'm not talking about "if no one is there will you be ticketed", I'm asking where is it the norm to come to a full stop even if there are multiple people at the intersection? In the midwest and southwest it's common to "California roll" through a stop sign, and given the name of the maneuver, I assume this is also common out west.
  - cout 5y ago
    My first time visiting Boston I came to a four-way stop leaving the airport. I was surprised that not a single car came to a full stop in the other three directions. They did not yield to the vehicle on the right as is the norm in my state; since I had come to a full stop, they perceived me as voluntarily yielding the right-of-way. When I explained to a local that the other drivers weren't yielding, the reply was "oh, you didn't come to a full stop, did you? Don't do that.".
    - 5y ago