4 ms·

Ironically, this "Ask HN" post isn't much different than the kind of rant thread one sees on Twitter all the time, including the comments from people piling in

by a4isms 5y ago

Ironically, this "Ask HN" post isn't much different than the kind of rant thread one sees on Twitter all the time, including the comments from people piling in to agree with the rant. There's nothing particularly constructive, no suggestion for "fixing" the problems you articulate, it's a human being—you— talking about their perfectly valid feelings—that Twitter is a waste of focus. If you can understand why you feel it's valuable to post this rant on HN and have a conversation in public with those who choose to reply to it, you can understand why people post rants on Twitter. p.s. If HN was nothing except these Ask HN posts, it would be Twitter. What makes it HN is that this kind of post is infrequent. p.p.s. I don't object to this post on HN or the value of having a conversation about what makes another social media site good/bad/meh.

starkd 5y ago
Maybe he's looking to get a more thoughtful analysis than can be had in the twitter verse. It is a common problem and might be aided by better UI or custom features to encourage better discourse. It's also a question of lifestyle. That being said, I am admittedly out of ideas on this one. Never been a fan of twitter.
- a4isms 5y ago
  Absolutely positively one would expect different outcomes here than there. Even if the exact same people see this comment here as there, the platforms systemically optimize for different outcomes. For example, this forum is moderated, Twitter is almost completely unmoderated. This forum allows for longer replies but bans pictures. Twitter forces you to create threads, but allows pictures.
  - starkd 5y ago
    This platform is definitely more awkward to use, but, in many ways, I find it to be a feature. I rarely comment, but even the upvoting/downvoting/flagging I find to be a distraction. NOtifications are definitely convenient, but they no doubt encourage arguments that go on too long. HN doesn't make for an easy back and forth.
    - a4isms 5y ago
      It has other anti-yelling-past-each-other features. For example, after a comment is made, there's a delay before anybody is allowed to reply. I doubt anybody in the middle of an argument would cool down and change their minds, but it does provide an opportunity to go look at something else and forget about going back and dropping that zinger you planned to launch...
- jacobr1 5y ago
  I suspect there is something about the social dynamics of a small community vs. a widely used public network. Social network platforms (used loosely) have had this issue for a long time - consider "eternal september" and usenet. Reddit has some sub-reddits that are well moderated and have great contributors, as does HN (at least at its best). I'm not sure what twitter could do that wouldn't also reduce its audience and overall engagement. And one of the big factors with a small community are social norms - these aren't technical - though the platform can influence the incentives to maintain the norms.
b3morales 5y ago
This is true, but the comparison also raises a further question: do Twitter, HN, other places support kinds of discussion besides this, and to what extent? And depending on the answer, are they worth participating in? I think that part of the OP's point is that Twitter is strongly inclined to this kind of interaction, which has to factor into a person's decision whether to use it.
- a4isms 5y ago
  I don't disagree, I'm joust pointing out that it should be easy to see why people post the kinds of things on Twitter that the OP is posting here.
TameAntelope 5y ago
Eh, don't lionize HN too much; it's not the intellectual bastion folks sometimes pretend, it's just the advertising arm of YCombinator (though dang will disagree with that if you ask him).
- a4isms 5y ago
  Who's lionizing HN? I've been here for fifteen years and could write fifty of these rants about it.
Aloha 5y ago
I recently concluded that there may be "too much" when it comes to the democratization of communications - particularly when reaching a wide audience. It's pretty orthogonal to my views otherwise, but its the only thing that can explain how social media distorts things. Giving every Tom, Dick and Harry a mouthpiece that can reach millions is probably a maladaptation to a healthy and productive society. A person who before might have before just been a village or local kook, can now be a guiding voice to millions, with little effort on their part, and little way for the rest of us to push back.
bradlys 5y ago
Hilariously true. I upvoted you and the poster just so this point gets more attention. Had to comment as well to make sure it stays ranked highly enough to see under “Active” as well.

by a4isms 5y ago

starkd 5y ago

Maybe he's looking to get a more thoughtful analysis than can be had in the twitter verse. It is a common problem and might be aided by better UI or custom features to encourage better discourse. It's also a question of lifestyle. That being said, I am admittedly out of ideas on this one. Never been a fan of twitter.

a4isms 5y ago
Absolutely positively one would expect different outcomes here than there. Even if the exact same people see this comment here as there, the platforms systemically optimize for different outcomes. For example, this forum is moderated, Twitter is almost completely unmoderated. This forum allows for longer replies but bans pictures. Twitter forces you to create threads, but allows pictures.
- starkd 5y ago
  This platform is definitely more awkward to use, but, in many ways, I find it to be a feature. I rarely comment, but even the upvoting/downvoting/flagging I find to be a distraction. NOtifications are definitely convenient, but they no doubt encourage arguments that go on too long. HN doesn't make for an easy back and forth.
  - a4isms 5y ago
    It has other anti-yelling-past-each-other features. For example, after a comment is made, there's a delay before anybody is allowed to reply. I doubt anybody in the middle of an argument would cool down and change their minds, but it does provide an opportunity to go look at something else and forget about going back and dropping that zinger you planned to launch...
jacobr1 5y ago
I suspect there is something about the social dynamics of a small community vs. a widely used public network. Social network platforms (used loosely) have had this issue for a long time - consider "eternal september" and usenet. Reddit has some sub-reddits that are well moderated and have great contributors, as does HN (at least at its best). I'm not sure what twitter could do that wouldn't also reduce its audience and overall engagement. And one of the big factors with a small community are social norms - these aren't technical - though the platform can influence the incentives to maintain the norms.

b3morales 5y ago

This is true, but the comparison also raises a further question: do Twitter, HN, other places support kinds of discussion besides this, and to what extent? And depending on the answer, are they worth participating in? I think that part of the OP's point is that Twitter is strongly inclined to this kind of interaction, which has to factor into a person's decision whether to use it.

a4isms 5y ago
I don't disagree, I'm joust pointing out that it should be easy to see why people post the kinds of things on Twitter that the OP is posting here.

TameAntelope 5y ago

Eh, don't lionize HN too much; it's not the intellectual bastion folks sometimes pretend, it's just the advertising arm of YCombinator (though dang will disagree with that if you ask him).

a4isms 5y ago
Who's lionizing HN? I've been here for fifteen years and could write fifty of these rants about it.

Aloha 5y ago

I recently concluded that there may be "too much" when it comes to the democratization of communications - particularly when reaching a wide audience. It's pretty orthogonal to my views otherwise, but its the only thing that can explain how social media distorts things. Giving every Tom, Dick and Harry a mouthpiece that can reach millions is probably a maladaptation to a healthy and productive society. A person who before might have before just been a village or local kook, can now be a guiding voice to millions, with little effort on their part, and little way for the rest of us to push back.

bradlys 5y ago

Hilariously true. I upvoted you and the poster just so this point gets more attention. Had to comment as well to make sure it stays ranked highly enough to see under “Active” as well.