6 ms·

Tin foil hat stuff, to be honest. Prove it or stop promulgating it.

fsflover 5y ago
If it's technically possible, it will happen, I believe. Even if it's not the case yet. This is the curse of non-free software, as predicted by Stallman.
- RealityVoid 5y ago
  Maybe. But first prove the standing allegations.
generalizations 5y ago
It doesn't do you or anyone else any good to be militantly skeptical that people with opportunity sometimes act maliciously. Also, this looks like the origin of the anecdote: https://web.archive.org/web/20200519095006/https://old.reddit.com/r/security/comments/bpjky4/worried_about_your_smart_tv_listening_in_simply/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200519095006/https://old.reddi...
- gruez 5y ago
  >It doesn't do you or anyone else any good to be militantly skeptical To be fair it's a pretty popular meme, almost as popular as "facebook app is listening to you", despite having zero proof behind it. I'd be pretty annoyed if such unproven claims regularly show up in every hn thread about smart TVs.
JohnWhigham 5y ago
After the past decade of pretty much every conspiracy theory about big tech companies becoming true, are you seriously still calling another marginal thing "tin foil hat stuff"?
- gruez 5y ago
  But this is pretty trivial to prove. All you need is set up some sort of router with open wifi, and check the client list. The fact that such proof hasn't showed up despite the anecdotes being around for years should make you very skeptical. >After the past decade of pretty much every conspiracy theory about big tech companies becoming true "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."
Retr0id 5y ago
"[...] The exploit still fires even if the TV is not connected to the internet." https://twitter.com/David3141593/status/1481993413843161092 https://twitter.com/David3141593/status/1481993413843161092
- kllrnohj 5y ago
  That's the wrong way around. That's the TV receiving an over the air exploit via broadcast TV. Not the TV broadcasting anything that's picked up by anyone, nor is the TV connecting to any form of internet connected anything.
  - Retr0id 5y ago
    Once the TV is exploited, you can command it to connect to whatever you like, or broadcast whatever wifi/bluetooth data you like, unless the wifi card has been physically ripped out.
    - kllrnohj 5y ago
      What's your threat model here that has any relevance to the discussion? That your neighbor hacks your TV to connect it to WiFi behind your back to...? Collect analytics?
      - Retr0id 5y ago
        The remote has a microphone on it, and the TV itself has APIs for capturing screen content. Not really things I'd like to share. Alternatively, they could just brick the TV. I agree that it's highly implausible that my neighbor would do either of these things, but they could, if sufficiently motivated.
        kllrnohj 5y ago
        But that still doesn't really answer to what's the relevance to this discussion? It's not really a symptom of a smart TV nor the result of ads from aggressive cost cutting. It's a cool hack, and probably the only conceivable reason I'd ever let a TV take a firmware update, but it's hardly relevant to the topic of whether or not you should let your TV access the internet or whether or not Smart TVs are malicious when denied internet access during setup.

If it's technically possible, it will happen, I believe. Even if it's not the case yet. This is the curse of non-free software, as predicted by Stallman.

RealityVoid 5y ago
Maybe. But first prove the standing allegations.

generalizations 5y ago

It doesn't do you or anyone else any good to be militantly skeptical that people with opportunity sometimes act maliciously. Also, this looks like the origin of the anecdote: https://web.archive.org/web/20200519095006/https://old.reddit.com/r/security/comments/bpjky4/worried_about_your_smart_tv_listening_in_simply/ https://web.archive.org/web/20200519095006/https://old.reddi...

gruez 5y ago
>It doesn't do you or anyone else any good to be militantly skeptical To be fair it's a pretty popular meme, almost as popular as "facebook app is listening to you", despite having zero proof behind it. I'd be pretty annoyed if such unproven claims regularly show up in every hn thread about smart TVs.

JohnWhigham 5y ago

After the past decade of pretty much every conspiracy theory about big tech companies becoming true, are you seriously still calling another marginal thing "tin foil hat stuff"?

gruez 5y ago
But this is pretty trivial to prove. All you need is set up some sort of router with open wifi, and check the client list. The fact that such proof hasn't showed up despite the anecdotes being around for years should make you very skeptical. >After the past decade of pretty much every conspiracy theory about big tech companies becoming true "The fact that some geniuses were laughed at does not imply that all who are laughed at are geniuses. They laughed at Columbus, they laughed at Fulton, they laughed at the Wright brothers. But they also laughed at Bozo the Clown."

Retr0id 5y ago

"[...] The exploit still fires even if the TV is not connected to the internet." https://twitter.com/David3141593/status/1481993413843161092 https://twitter.com/David3141593/status/1481993413843161092

kllrnohj 5y ago
That's the wrong way around. That's the TV receiving an over the air exploit via broadcast TV. Not the TV broadcasting anything that's picked up by anyone, nor is the TV connecting to any form of internet connected anything.
- Retr0id 5y ago
  Once the TV is exploited, you can command it to connect to whatever you like, or broadcast whatever wifi/bluetooth data you like, unless the wifi card has been physically ripped out.
  - kllrnohj 5y ago
    What's your threat model here that has any relevance to the discussion? That your neighbor hacks your TV to connect it to WiFi behind your back to...? Collect analytics?
    - Retr0id 5y ago
      The remote has a microphone on it, and the TV itself has APIs for capturing screen content. Not really things I'd like to share. Alternatively, they could just brick the TV. I agree that it's highly implausible that my neighbor would do either of these things, but they could, if sufficiently motivated.
      - kllrnohj 5y ago
        But that still doesn't really answer to what's the relevance to this discussion? It's not really a symptom of a smart TV nor the result of ads from aggressive cost cutting. It's a cool hack, and probably the only conceivable reason I'd ever let a TV take a firmware update, but it's hardly relevant to the topic of whether or not you should let your TV access the internet or whether or not Smart TVs are malicious when denied internet access during setup.