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> If Germany was truly meaning business, they'd stop Nord Stream 1 If Germany is meaning business, they'd stop buying any gas from Russia. Why would the means
by meinersbur 5y ago
> If Germany was truly meaning business, they'd stop Nord Stream 1
If Germany is meaning business, they'd stop buying any gas from Russia. Why would the means how it gets to Germany even matter?
- ttyyzz 5y agoHow am I going to heat my house?
- AndyMcConachie 5y agoDon't know why you got downvoted. All these Americans in this thread can have all the opinions they want. They're not getting screwed by high gas prices right now.
- mercutio2 5y agoGas prices are extremely high for Americans this year, also. But it’s true that Russia isn’t a driving force in that.
- lostmsu 5y agoI think "extremely high" is quite an overstatement.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoGas/fuel prices are a global commodity, of course the Ukraine conflict will affect Americans, not as much as Europe, but Americans will get a lot of it as well. The middle east is probably loving the influx of income.
- mercutio2 5y agoGas in this case means methane, right? While it’s technically true that there’s shipping of LNG outside of pipelines, my impression is that the market for methane isn’t currently very global. My point was that the resurgence of economies and cold winters has driven up US methane prices to 2-2.5x where they were a year ago. I was specifically responding to a commenter implying Americans aren’t experiencing difficulty paying for heating this year. How much higher are German rates for methane?
- oytis 5y agoNot everyone in Europe is in a comfortable position where they can care about gas prices more than they care about Russian expansion.
- CRConrad 5y ago> Not everyone in Europe is in a comfortable position where they can care about gas prices more than they care about Russian expansion. OTOH, not everyone in Europe is in a comfortable position where they can care about Russian expansion more than they care about heating their home.
- oytis 5y agoPretty much everyone actually. What is the worst consequence of not being able to pay for the heating? In the very extreme case, which could affect a tiny minority of the poorest people, you get broke, and have to apply for welfare. Maybe you'll have to use electric heating and/or wear warm clothes inside for a while. That's about it - nothing comparable to what Ukrainians have to endure.
- stjohnswarts 5y agoIt's a global market, we get hit by high gas prices too. Almost half of Europeans gas prices are fuel taxes anyway. Talk your governments into backing off those for a while.
- mechanical_bear 5y agoHow is my grandmother going to have a house after EU lets a Russian tank drive over it?
- parasense 5y agoThe EU is dependent on RU energy exports. It's that simple. Noble principles do not heat homes, or feed the hungry. You are free to construct a dichotomy of tanks rumbling over homes, or homes being deprived of heating during hard winter.... but you will only succeed in illustrating the Nash Equilibrium, and fail to be persuasive otherwise. Try to look at the big picture.
- oytis 5y agoEurope being dependent on Russia for energy is not a cosmological constant, but a result of multiple political decisions done over decades that are being _slowly_ reconsidered now (nobody is closing the first Nord Stream yet for one)
- mechanical_bear 5y agoI’m not sure how this illustrates Nash Equilibrium, nothing stable about this. This is just a hegemonic but declining power (USA), that provided security and stability assurances, which is no longer able to provide those assurances. Putin sees an opportunity to rebuild glory of Russian empire and distract from crushing domestic issues.
- ed_balls 5y agoheat pump and solar. cheaper and less risky.
- laacz 5y agoa) Solar is not applicable to the Northern Europe. It does not generate heat when it's needed the most (winter). b) Heat pump (installation, retrofitting existing heat distribution, if at all possible; largest problems might arise with wall mounted radiators since they much larger temperatures to operate) is very costly. Maintenance and running costs not so much. c) Electricity prices even at the current tarriffs are not cheaper than CNG. This comes from data comparing data on similar volume and insulation buildings using heatpump and CNG heating. That will most likely change in favour of electricity, though its generation from natural gas is really popular around here. d) To change the type of heating from CNG to something else en-masse would require extreme financial, labor and supply expenses. I'm pro giving up on the Russian CGN because I do not depend on it and I can offset price hikes. But assuming that would not be without major economic and other consequences is a nonsense. Edit: formatting and a typo.
- fy20 5y agoIn in Northern Europe and (c) is not true for new housing stock. I'm building a house and ran the calculations (two years ago, before gas got expensive) for various forms of heating, and solar PV + heat pump came out the cheapest. We have net-metering but still need to pay "transmission fees" (7c/kWh) for electricity we later consume. I also considered just using gas for heating in the winter, but the connection fees (installation and ongoing network fees) came out to be much more than the cost of the gas we would actually use.
- ilyich 5y agoYou can heat it with solar, wind and democracy.