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The problem with Cyberpunk and other similar titles is the disconnect between marketing requirements and the reality of developing such insanely complex softwar

The problem with Cyberpunk and other similar titles is the disconnect between marketing requirements and the reality of developing such insanely complex software projects. If any software developer reading this was working on a similarly complex project — $100m budget, 200 strong team, etc. — and was asked a year or more in advance, to commit to an exact release deadline, a laundry list of features, a promise of zero major bugs, they would say it was impossible. They would say that the way to deliver such a project is through an agile and iterative process, without hard deadlines and with only gradual rollout of features to progressively larger numbers of users. But AAA games need to be an "event". They require a huge marketing campaign with a specific release date. They need a completed, polished product that overnight goes from being played by a relatively minuscule number of users to everyone. This is impossible, but the economic realities of the games industry means companies try it anyway, again and again, with predictable results. On the other hand, smaller, indie studios have created a much better model: early access. Players pay a reduced price for the chance to play and help shape incomplete versions of the game. The game is gradually expanded and refined, just as any game is nowadays post-official release, except this is an explicit part of the arrangement between players and developers. It's not a flawless approach, of course, but it's still a much saner way to create games. And hits like Hades prove that it doesn't mean you can still have a big, successful final release once you've got a finished product.

spaceisballer 5y ago
Personally I’m not excited for huge title releases anymore. Plenty of early access games that I’m down for. Recently picked up Project Zomboid for $20. It needs some work on the performance side, but playing a zombie survival game with friends is very fun. We haven’t even bothered doing any modding or other changes.
wongarsu 5y ago
Early Access is probably the most significant development in the video game industry. Complex titles like Factorio, Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress or Minecraft wouldn't be possible without it, both from a design perspective (continuous player feedback) and a financing perspective (derisking by getting early market validation). Before Minecraft popularized the only ways to get that kind of depth was in an MMO (which is more or less the same thing as a subscription model) or to a lesser degree in a game that iterated a lot by releasing sequels or extension packs (both of which are much slower to iterate).
- SXX 5y ago
  Unfortunately Early Access only work good for specific kind of games where continious support make sense. If your project is not built with unlimited replayability by design then it's doesn't work, e.g if your game is story-driven. EA work realy well for titles that managed to get some community or media attention. For most of other indie game developers primary target is to attempt to get promition from platform itself (e.g Steam or console) since it's only way to sell something. Also releasing in Early Access require very specific development pipeline where from very beginning you have to deliver stable builds with constant production quality (graphics quality, no placeholder art, etc). Most of players dont really give a damn about how game development works neither they want to play game that look incomplete or crashes often. PS: My point is that early access work for some titles, but for every Rimworld or Factorio there are literally thousand of games that failed miserably because early access dont work for them.
  - wongarsu 5y ago
    It certainly requires a different development model and doesn't fit every game (though I would say it's more about being "cinematic" than "story-driven", there are plenty of Early Access visual novels). There are also a lot of games that get stuck in perpetual feature creep for years without really moving forward. But I think the fact that we see so many failures is more because the failures are more visible, not because early access fails more often. Lots of games get cancelled somewhere between idea and release, for the bigger studios many more than get released, but unless it happens in the last year or so of the development cycle you never hear about them. With early access all these failures suddenly become visible
LeoNatan25 5y ago
This game was already had several significant delays. It should have been pushed for several more years. Even at 1.5, it's clearly not yet ready at the basic, fundamental level, let alone all the marketing BS they threw over the many years of hyping. The Rockstar system is the correct system to use. Don't speak publicly about a project until it is almost complete, then start the "event" by slowly showing more and more of the game and its world. Instead, CDP made all the mistakes possible—over hype, lie (surely they knew by the last two years how broken their game is) and severely underdeliver.
- Hamuko 5y ago
  >It should have been pushed for several more years. My speculation is that they wanted to hit a 2020 release because the name of the Cyberpunk 2020 edition of the original RPG, and the fact that Cyberpunk 2020 celebrated its 30th anniversary in 2020.
  - me_me_me 5y ago
    Nah, they were targeting previous gen consoles, probably signed deals with Sony and MS to deliver on those platforms. They rushed to meet deadlines and got burned by the scope of the project. Problem with C2077 is verticality of the game, Witcher was laid-out horizontaly on large plains. C2077 must have been optimization nightmare especially when you suppose to down-port it to last gen consoles.
    - foxfluff 5y ago
      > Nah, they were targeting previous gen consoles They even sold cyberpunk themed limited edition Xbox One X, a cyberpunk themed PS4 controller.. so I'm guessing the pressure to release for these consoles before they're completely obsoleted by the new gen must have been immense.
- MomoXenosaga 5y ago
  It is entirely possible CDPro was running out of money. When Rockstar spent a decade on RDR2 they had GTA Online making billions.

spaceisballer 5y ago

Personally I’m not excited for huge title releases anymore. Plenty of early access games that I’m down for. Recently picked up Project Zomboid for $20. It needs some work on the performance side, but playing a zombie survival game with friends is very fun. We haven’t even bothered doing any modding or other changes.

wongarsu 5y ago

Early Access is probably the most significant development in the video game industry. Complex titles like Factorio, Rimworld, Dwarf Fortress or Minecraft wouldn't be possible without it, both from a design perspective (continuous player feedback) and a financing perspective (derisking by getting early market validation). Before Minecraft popularized the only ways to get that kind of depth was in an MMO (which is more or less the same thing as a subscription model) or to a lesser degree in a game that iterated a lot by releasing sequels or extension packs (both of which are much slower to iterate).

SXX 5y ago
Unfortunately Early Access only work good for specific kind of games where continious support make sense. If your project is not built with unlimited replayability by design then it's doesn't work, e.g if your game is story-driven. EA work realy well for titles that managed to get some community or media attention. For most of other indie game developers primary target is to attempt to get promition from platform itself (e.g Steam or console) since it's only way to sell something. Also releasing in Early Access require very specific development pipeline where from very beginning you have to deliver stable builds with constant production quality (graphics quality, no placeholder art, etc). Most of players dont really give a damn about how game development works neither they want to play game that look incomplete or crashes often. PS: My point is that early access work for some titles, but for every Rimworld or Factorio there are literally thousand of games that failed miserably because early access dont work for them.
- wongarsu 5y ago
  It certainly requires a different development model and doesn't fit every game (though I would say it's more about being "cinematic" than "story-driven", there are plenty of Early Access visual novels). There are also a lot of games that get stuck in perpetual feature creep for years without really moving forward. But I think the fact that we see so many failures is more because the failures are more visible, not because early access fails more often. Lots of games get cancelled somewhere between idea and release, for the bigger studios many more than get released, but unless it happens in the last year or so of the development cycle you never hear about them. With early access all these failures suddenly become visible

LeoNatan25 5y ago

This game was already had several significant delays. It should have been pushed for several more years. Even at 1.5, it's clearly not yet ready at the basic, fundamental level, let alone all the marketing BS they threw over the many years of hyping. The Rockstar system is the correct system to use. Don't speak publicly about a project until it is almost complete, then start the "event" by slowly showing more and more of the game and its world. Instead, CDP made all the mistakes possible—over hype, lie (surely they knew by the last two years how broken their game is) and severely underdeliver.

Hamuko 5y ago
>It should have been pushed for several more years. My speculation is that they wanted to hit a 2020 release because the name of the Cyberpunk 2020 edition of the original RPG, and the fact that Cyberpunk 2020 celebrated its 30th anniversary in 2020.
- me_me_me 5y ago
  Nah, they were targeting previous gen consoles, probably signed deals with Sony and MS to deliver on those platforms. They rushed to meet deadlines and got burned by the scope of the project. Problem with C2077 is verticality of the game, Witcher was laid-out horizontaly on large plains. C2077 must have been optimization nightmare especially when you suppose to down-port it to last gen consoles.
  - foxfluff 5y ago
    > Nah, they were targeting previous gen consoles They even sold cyberpunk themed limited edition Xbox One X, a cyberpunk themed PS4 controller.. so I'm guessing the pressure to release for these consoles before they're completely obsoleted by the new gen must have been immense.
MomoXenosaga 5y ago
It is entirely possible CDPro was running out of money. When Rockstar spent a decade on RDR2 they had GTA Online making billions.