6 ms·

In the coming decades, I think a lot more of this will come out... I am not saying it is right or wrong...just my observation... on my university course, women

In the coming decades, I think a lot more of this will come out... I am not saying it is right or wrong...just my observation... on my university course, women were offered lower entry grades to boost numbers. A white male friends is worried he will not make MD at a large US bank because he is not the right sex, race or sexual orientation...The established white male MDs are entrenched and it is the up and coming generation which is getting discriminated against. Will people start to withhold information on race and sex in their applications for fear of being discriminated against? I think so...

jl6 5y ago
He could always just come out as non-binary to get almost all of that access at almost no personal cost.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
- amcoastal 5y ago
  - bloak 5y ago
    I agree that "Daniel" doesn't sound like the sort of person who could easily "come out as nonbinary" but there are people with more "flamboyant" personalities who would rather relish an excuse for drawing attention to themselves and winding people up in that way. There are a few people like that on every university campus, I think: the sort of people who are not trans or any kind of queer but cross-dress just for a laugh. So the trolly suggestion might work for a few people.
  - jl6 5y ago
    They wouldn't need to make any physical or behavioural changes, so I don't see why they would lose any of the things you mention.
    - curtisblaine 5y ago
      More than that: they would be automatically protected from any inquiry about changes of their physical or behavioural aspects (or lack thereof). How do you "measure" objectively if a person is "non-binary"?
- dang 5y ago
  Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. It's exactly what we don't want here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
hmate9 5y ago
Information such as race and sex should not even be on the application form to begin with.
- fmajid 5y ago
  France considered making "blind" resumes mandatory, i.e. the resume would have a top part with name and other PII that would be cut off and kept by HR, the hiring manager would not see them. Of course, this not deal with the problem of discrimination during in-person interviews but it would address the issue of candidates rejected from consideration just because of their name.
  - flenserboy 5y ago
    Funny how these things work sometimes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/arts/music/blind-auditions-orchestras-race.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/arts/music/blind-audition...
akudha 5y ago
When IBM came to my campus for recruiting, their presentation openly said they are going to hire more women than men, even if men had higher GPA and did better in interviews. This was to “increase diversity” of their workforce, they said. Most of the men at my campus just shrugged and laughed it off. It was just one company (if memory serves right) among the dozens that came to the campus that year. I wonder now if this was happening more, but quietly. Hey, at least IBM was open about it! This is a very difficult slope. We want to help minorities. But we also want to be fair to others at the same time. In the case of academia, it is much worse situation simply because there is a huge pool of qualified applicants for a very small number of positions.
- AlgorithmicTime 5y ago
- Lio 5y ago
  IBM is probably not somewhere you want to build a long term career in any case. They're known for ageism[1] amongst other things, which won't affect new graduates but should be seen as a canary in a coal mine. If they're penalising people solely based on age what are the chances they'll also penalise you for not matching some other non-performance based criteria? 1. https://www.consultancy.uk/news/30498/ibm-accused-of-ageism-over-mass-layoffs https://www.consultancy.uk/news/30498/ibm-accused-of-ageism-...
  - julius_deane 5y ago
    how can you say that ibm practices ageism and immediately say it does not affect new graduates? don't you see how that affects new graduates chances of being hired?
    - bradlys 5y ago
      Think they mean won’t affect new graduates negatively.
olsonjeffery 5y ago
- Blackstone4 5y ago
  - olsonjeffery 5y ago
    >I get the impression you are a judgemental, negative person Yes, that is a common reaction to encountering someone who doesn't kiss your ass, which it sounds like you're used to. Go find a safe space, buttercup.
    - deleted 5y ago
      [deleted]
    - infamia 5y ago
      People who say things like they don't, "kiss your ass" and then use dismissive terms like "kiddo" and "buttercup" is very typically cover when they can't admit they're just being crass and self-centered. Any moment now, I fully expect you to inform us that you merely "tell it like it is" or something equally tedious. I've seen this pattern so many times throughout the decades. You should carefully consider the possibility that you are indeed being a jerk (and we're all jerks at least occasionally).
      - Blackstone4 5y ago
        I agree. Their comments were patronizing...typical of a bully/jerk...
    - dang 5y ago
      Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. We ban accounts that do that, regardless of how right they are or feel they are. Perhaps you don't feel you owe "buttercups" better, but you owe this community better if you're participating here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.
DanBC 5y ago
- pureliquidhw 5y ago
  Does OP directly say that? Comments like this show exactly the kind of racism white males are coming up against. They're assumed to have privilege and access to ivy league networks. You directly say with no info except that the OPs friend is white that he probably coasted by most of his life. Seems like you're the one slinging racist stereotypes. OP was sharing an anecdote of his friend's experience of an unlevel playing field. Your response is to undermine that concern based on race! Ironic, no?
- Blackstone4 5y ago
matt321 5y ago
I check the box that says "I prefer not to say" whenever the question of race or sex comes up shrug.

jl6 5y ago

He could always just come out as non-binary to get almost all of that access at almost no personal cost.

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
amcoastal 5y ago
- bloak 5y ago
  I agree that "Daniel" doesn't sound like the sort of person who could easily "come out as nonbinary" but there are people with more "flamboyant" personalities who would rather relish an excuse for drawing attention to themselves and winding people up in that way. There are a few people like that on every university campus, I think: the sort of people who are not trans or any kind of queer but cross-dress just for a laugh. So the trolly suggestion might work for a few people.
- jl6 5y ago
  They wouldn't need to make any physical or behavioural changes, so I don't see why they would lose any of the things you mention.
  - curtisblaine 5y ago
    More than that: they would be automatically protected from any inquiry about changes of their physical or behavioural aspects (or lack thereof). How do you "measure" objectively if a person is "non-binary"?
dang 5y ago
Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. It's exactly what we don't want here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

hmate9 5y ago

Information such as race and sex should not even be on the application form to begin with.

fmajid 5y ago
France considered making "blind" resumes mandatory, i.e. the resume would have a top part with name and other PII that would be cut off and kept by HR, the hiring manager would not see them. Of course, this not deal with the problem of discrimination during in-person interviews but it would address the issue of candidates rejected from consideration just because of their name.
- flenserboy 5y ago
  Funny how these things work sometimes. https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/arts/music/blind-auditions-orchestras-race.html https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/16/arts/music/blind-audition...

akudha 5y ago

When IBM came to my campus for recruiting, their presentation openly said they are going to hire more women than men, even if men had higher GPA and did better in interviews. This was to “increase diversity” of their workforce, they said. Most of the men at my campus just shrugged and laughed it off. It was just one company (if memory serves right) among the dozens that came to the campus that year. I wonder now if this was happening more, but quietly. Hey, at least IBM was open about it! This is a very difficult slope. We want to help minorities. But we also want to be fair to others at the same time. In the case of academia, it is much worse situation simply because there is a huge pool of qualified applicants for a very small number of positions.

AlgorithmicTime 5y ago
Lio 5y ago
IBM is probably not somewhere you want to build a long term career in any case. They're known for ageism[1] amongst other things, which won't affect new graduates but should be seen as a canary in a coal mine. If they're penalising people solely based on age what are the chances they'll also penalise you for not matching some other non-performance based criteria? 1. https://www.consultancy.uk/news/30498/ibm-accused-of-ageism-over-mass-layoffs https://www.consultancy.uk/news/30498/ibm-accused-of-ageism-...
- julius_deane 5y ago
  how can you say that ibm practices ageism and immediately say it does not affect new graduates? don't you see how that affects new graduates chances of being hired?
  - bradlys 5y ago
    Think they mean won’t affect new graduates negatively.

olsonjeffery 5y ago

Blackstone4 5y ago
- olsonjeffery 5y ago
  >I get the impression you are a judgemental, negative person Yes, that is a common reaction to encountering someone who doesn't kiss your ass, which it sounds like you're used to. Go find a safe space, buttercup.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
  - infamia 5y ago
    People who say things like they don't, "kiss your ass" and then use dismissive terms like "kiddo" and "buttercup" is very typically cover when they can't admit they're just being crass and self-centered. Any moment now, I fully expect you to inform us that you merely "tell it like it is" or something equally tedious. I've seen this pattern so many times throughout the decades. You should carefully consider the possibility that you are indeed being a jerk (and we're all jerks at least occasionally).
    - Blackstone4 5y ago
      I agree. Their comments were patronizing...typical of a bully/jerk...
  - dang 5y ago
    Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar hell. We ban accounts that do that, regardless of how right they are or feel they are. Perhaps you don't feel you owe "buttercups" better, but you owe this community better if you're participating here. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

DanBC 5y ago

pureliquidhw 5y ago
Does OP directly say that? Comments like this show exactly the kind of racism white males are coming up against. They're assumed to have privilege and access to ivy league networks. You directly say with no info except that the OPs friend is white that he probably coasted by most of his life. Seems like you're the one slinging racist stereotypes. OP was sharing an anecdote of his friend's experience of an unlevel playing field. Your response is to undermine that concern based on race! Ironic, no?
Blackstone4 5y ago

matt321 5y ago

I check the box that says "I prefer not to say" whenever the question of race or sex comes up shrug.