4 ms·

I know plenty of people who will say "you know what, I'm out" despite living paycheck to paycheck, or maybe having 1 or 2 months living expenses saved up. They'

I know plenty of people who will say "you know what, I'm out" despite living paycheck to paycheck, or maybe having 1 or 2 months living expenses saved up. They're just open to the risk of going with the flow, and confident they'll find something to keep them going. They tend to be a lot happier than those I know who are focussed on money and career. This doesn't work if you're literally struggling to make ends meet to the point that you're actually not making ends meet. But you certainly don't need anything near "never have to work again" levels of wealth to have this freedom.

suction 5y ago
I reckon they're not 50 or older, though.
drra 5y ago
It works if you don't have many responsibilities. I recently lost my only source of income and that became crippling to my overall performance when it comes to side projects that could eventually replace that source. It was really surprising since I expected to head full forward with my projects. It used to be the case when I was a student capable of living on a shoestring budget.
- lowercased 5y ago
  > It works if you don't have many responsibilities. Yep. Single person with minimal responsibilities has more freedom/flexibility than someone with a family (for example) - kids/spouse mean your time is not just your own, and your decisions have direct (often immediate) impacts on those around you.
- xwdv 5y ago
  Throw a wife and two kids into that mix and let’s see what happens to your side projects.
  - datavirtue 5y ago
    Yeah, it goes from 16 hours a day to MAYBE 16 hours a week.
    - lazide 5y ago
      Or -16 hrs a week (made up by borrowing from sleep or other necessary time), which just isn’t sustainable.
    - czbond 5y ago
      I have a lot of experience pushing forward stuff with wife / kids. One must learn to delegate. Yes you can do "programming whatever", but you don't have the time. If you believe in the project, allocate.... $100,$500,$1k a month for a few months (whatever is your threshold) and outsource! It doesn't need to be in "expensive React with microservices".... you can do v1 in Laravel and a purchased template. (as example). If one does not feel comfortable paying someone to do some of the work - it is a key tell the project may not be worth continuing. Momentum is key as projects natural state is "trending towards death"
      - xwdv 5y ago
        This advice used to work years ago but user expectations have risen massively and you can no longer get away with a shitty cookie cutter MVP. You must do the big work upfront and come out very polished out of the gate, or else users will sense you don’t really have much skin in the game and not bother investing time in your niche project. This often means you must leverage the latest and greatest tech to get an edge, such as React. Users have been burned too much by “lean startups” and “mvps” and have become wiser to their tricks.
        czbond 5y ago
        If the value proposition is common, then yes it is hard. If it is novel, then no. Agree design is much more important than before. But you can still pay a designer $1k or less and it looks pretty nice. Maybe not "uniquely different", but nice. Agree the days of "simply put it up and get users" is probably gone. One has to work it, which is what distinguishes a project from a business. Developers may be good at one, but not both.
- spookthesunset 5y ago
  > It used to be the case when I was a student capable of living on a shoestring budget. It blows me away how easy it is to grow your expenses right along with your income. I started in this industry making like $60k/yr and somehow managed to live and go on trips. Now that I’m older I make substantially more than that but somehow my expenses grew right along side. Car payment, expensive apartment, Uber eats, fancier groceries, lavish travel, expensive hobby stuff… shit adds up. Not to mention I’ve got graduate level student loans, maxed retirement, etc… I dunno… I know for sure if push came to shove I could do away with a large portion of that. But man can your expenses blow up so easily if you don’t pay attention to them.
serverlessmom 5y ago
I agree with what you are saying for sure. I have spent years working for myself in a variety of roles and while I was certainly happier than when I worked under a boss, the constant stress around lack of reliable income was stressful. Suddenly this last year or so all of the skills I had cultivated with my side hustles culminated in a way that I am both my own boss and making enough money my situation feels less dire. It was the combination of the two that really made a difference in my mental health
nosianu 5y ago
I know someone who did that and in the end he went from well-paid technical sales to homeless with serious health issues. One piece of minor bad luck followed by more bad luck with the health issues, probably a consequence of the former. Some of his former colleagues, years later, when one of them had found him in the streets, collected money to help him out. There is a risk of stepping outside. It's not all roses. People are not afraid for no reason and it's not just "all in the head" and an attitude problem.
- nicoburns 5y ago
  The people I'm thinking of weren't so much "stepping outside" as they were "never inside". They have always worked casual jobs which they enjoy, and generally have strong social networks that can help them out when they're in need.
borroka 5y ago
This is what Tullio Kezich wrote in his book "Federico" to describe Federico Fellini's attitude towards life. "He lived deep inside things with indomitable curiosity and perpetual openness, surrendering himself to what Dostoevsky calls "the river of life", in the serene awareness that it always takes you somewhere". It always takes you somewhere.

suction 5y ago

I reckon they're not 50 or older, though.

drra 5y ago

It works if you don't have many responsibilities. I recently lost my only source of income and that became crippling to my overall performance when it comes to side projects that could eventually replace that source. It was really surprising since I expected to head full forward with my projects. It used to be the case when I was a student capable of living on a shoestring budget.

lowercased 5y ago
> It works if you don't have many responsibilities. Yep. Single person with minimal responsibilities has more freedom/flexibility than someone with a family (for example) - kids/spouse mean your time is not just your own, and your decisions have direct (often immediate) impacts on those around you.
xwdv 5y ago
Throw a wife and two kids into that mix and let’s see what happens to your side projects.
- datavirtue 5y ago
  Yeah, it goes from 16 hours a day to MAYBE 16 hours a week.
  - lazide 5y ago
    Or -16 hrs a week (made up by borrowing from sleep or other necessary time), which just isn’t sustainable.
  - czbond 5y ago
    I have a lot of experience pushing forward stuff with wife / kids. One must learn to delegate. Yes you can do "programming whatever", but you don't have the time. If you believe in the project, allocate.... $100,$500,$1k a month for a few months (whatever is your threshold) and outsource! It doesn't need to be in "expensive React with microservices".... you can do v1 in Laravel and a purchased template. (as example). If one does not feel comfortable paying someone to do some of the work - it is a key tell the project may not be worth continuing. Momentum is key as projects natural state is "trending towards death"
    - xwdv 5y ago
      This advice used to work years ago but user expectations have risen massively and you can no longer get away with a shitty cookie cutter MVP. You must do the big work upfront and come out very polished out of the gate, or else users will sense you don’t really have much skin in the game and not bother investing time in your niche project. This often means you must leverage the latest and greatest tech to get an edge, such as React. Users have been burned too much by “lean startups” and “mvps” and have become wiser to their tricks.
      - czbond 5y ago
        If the value proposition is common, then yes it is hard. If it is novel, then no. Agree design is much more important than before. But you can still pay a designer $1k or less and it looks pretty nice. Maybe not "uniquely different", but nice. Agree the days of "simply put it up and get users" is probably gone. One has to work it, which is what distinguishes a project from a business. Developers may be good at one, but not both.
spookthesunset 5y ago
> It used to be the case when I was a student capable of living on a shoestring budget. It blows me away how easy it is to grow your expenses right along with your income. I started in this industry making like $60k/yr and somehow managed to live and go on trips. Now that I’m older I make substantially more than that but somehow my expenses grew right along side. Car payment, expensive apartment, Uber eats, fancier groceries, lavish travel, expensive hobby stuff… shit adds up. Not to mention I’ve got graduate level student loans, maxed retirement, etc… I dunno… I know for sure if push came to shove I could do away with a large portion of that. But man can your expenses blow up so easily if you don’t pay attention to them.

serverlessmom 5y ago

I agree with what you are saying for sure. I have spent years working for myself in a variety of roles and while I was certainly happier than when I worked under a boss, the constant stress around lack of reliable income was stressful. Suddenly this last year or so all of the skills I had cultivated with my side hustles culminated in a way that I am both my own boss and making enough money my situation feels less dire. It was the combination of the two that really made a difference in my mental health

nosianu 5y ago

I know someone who did that and in the end he went from well-paid technical sales to homeless with serious health issues. One piece of minor bad luck followed by more bad luck with the health issues, probably a consequence of the former. Some of his former colleagues, years later, when one of them had found him in the streets, collected money to help him out. There is a risk of stepping outside. It's not all roses. People are not afraid for no reason and it's not just "all in the head" and an attitude problem.

nicoburns 5y ago
The people I'm thinking of weren't so much "stepping outside" as they were "never inside". They have always worked casual jobs which they enjoy, and generally have strong social networks that can help them out when they're in need.

borroka 5y ago

This is what Tullio Kezich wrote in his book "Federico" to describe Federico Fellini's attitude towards life. "He lived deep inside things with indomitable curiosity and perpetual openness, surrendering himself to what Dostoevsky calls "the river of life", in the serene awareness that it always takes you somewhere". It always takes you somewhere.