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So the author had a folding phone that failed and couldn't get it repaired/replaced. The narrow take is that you're kinda crazy to buy a folding phone but Samsu

by jmyeet 5y ago

So the author had a folding phone that failed and couldn't get it repaired/replaced. The narrow take is that you're kinda crazy to buy a folding phone but Samsung was selling them so is really on the hook for the inevitable issues. The story of getting it fixed is really why people love Apple and even Amazon. I've had the Wifi go unreliable on an iPad. I got a Genius appointment for later that day. They confirmed the Wifi module was shot and just gave me a new device on the spot. They even offered to do the transfer for me. This sort of convenience is what gives people confidence in buying Apple products. Even something as simple as accessory access matters. If my Macbook charger dies, I can walk into any number of stores and buy another. Dell charger? Not so much. Amazon has pretty accurate shipping estimates. This matters. So does Apple for the record. Just last week I got sent the wrong product. I didn't have to talk to anyone on the phone. I simply went to my order on my phone and clicked "return item" -> "wrong product" and the entire matter was dealt with. I don't want to deal with support that is deliberately hard to contact that is monetarily motivated to not do anything for you.

maccard 5y ago
> The narrow take is that you're kinda crazy to buy a folding phone but Samsung was selling them so is really on the hook for the inevitable issues. It's not up to a customer to decide whether a product is "technically" feasible. Lots of things that "seem" impossible or unreasonable are usable and practical, e.g. compact high wattage laptop chargers compared to the absolute _units_ we used to get and still get on cheaper laptop models. The blame here is squarely on samsung; They decided that this product was fit for sale and as a result need to support it, whether or not people who buy it are "kinda crazy"
wraptile 5y ago
> The story of getting it fixed is really why people love Apple and even Amazon. It's really one of those anecdotal experiences. I used Samsung devices exclusively because they have RMA offices all around SEA region. On the other hand Apple's iCare in my current town has 2.2 stars on google reviews which I didn't know was even possible. When my work iPhone's battery died I decided to drop 70$ from my own pocket rather than deal with iCare - that's how bad it was. All I'm saying that warranty service anecdotes are just that - anecdotes, and your milage might vary.
- nefitty 5y ago
  Not to nerd snipe anyone (I'm having to stop myself as I write this) but couldn't you gather the star ratings of all of these sorts of repair centers/stores and get the overall average? It could be used as a sort of proximate net promoter score and we would be able to more objectively talk about the differences in quality...
- jmyeet 5y ago
  > I used Samsung devices exclusively because they have RMA offices all around SEA region. And how long does that take? Do you need to speak to Samsung support on the phone to get an RMA number? How easy is that? That seems to be the process according to Google. What have you had to get repaired this way? What was the process? > On the other hand Apple's iCare in my current town has 2.2 stars on google reviews First, what is iCare? Do you mean an Apple Store? Are you referring to AppleCare? Or something third party? I'm genuinely curious: which store? Can you point to it specifically? > When my work iPhone's battery died I decided to drop 70$ from my own pocket rather than deal with iCare - that's how bad it was. This story doesn't really pass the smell test to me. Who is dropping money to fix a work phone rather than having work deal with it? Was this out of pocket or expensed?
  - neurostimulant 5y ago
    AFAIK Apple doesn't have first party stores on most SEA countries, so the stores/service centers are probably owned by 3rd party authorized distributors. My own experience with android manufacturers' service center in SEA is you simply come in to their store, hand over the device, and get a quote later via email (if the damage is not covered by warranty). Direct device replacement on the spot is very rare, never even see it happening myself.
- mmcnl 5y ago
  What is iCare? As far as I know, Apple doesn't offer any products or services named iCare, nor are their stores named iCare.
thathndude 5y ago
A corollary to this take is that I don’t think folks appreciate how much Apple and Amazon have moved expectations. We’ve definitely adapted to this new normal that is insanely consumer friendly. But as soon as we get a taste of the way things used to be, it’s eye opening how far we’ve come. I think Google might be more of the same, but I just don’t have enough experience with the company. I’ve heard horror stories from Microsoft when it comes to hardware.
ValentineC 5y ago
> The story of getting it fixed is really why people love Apple and even Amazon. > I've had the Wifi go unreliable on an iPad. I got a Genius appointment for later that day. They confirmed the Wifi module was shot and just gave me a new device on the spot. They even offered to do the transfer for me. This sort of convenience is what gives people confidence in buying Apple products. I'm still using Apple hardware myself, but I daresay that if Apple corporate decides not to admit fault and fix something, users will be SOL too. Apple has never admitted fault for their shoddy MagSafe charger cable insulation, which always end up disintegrating and spewing blue stuff all over my furniture. I've had multiple cables flake over the years, and every time I bring the the charger to a Genius bar (so far: Australia, Japan, and Singapore), they've always fallen back to "policy" and blamed it on me for not taking care of it properly.
- ricardobeat 5y ago
  I've heard this before and am still puzzled by it. I've been using Apple devices for over a decade, and only ever had one or two phone charger cables fray, but they were really heavily used and looked like they were used in a farm for months. The vast majority still looks perfectly fine. I guess there must be small habits that have a great effect on degradation. Like stowing away the charger after every use vs keeping it in place at a desk, for example.
  - ajyotirmay 5y ago
    that might be a thing, but chargers are supposed to be portable unless I'm buying a power supply for a computer. Apple's cables aren't good design, and planned obsolescence
- tooltalk 5y ago
  same here. I had numerous technical problems with my rMacbook Pro, but having to pay Apple tax every year for the Magsafe 2 design/material defect was most infuriating. Having owned several Dell and Apple laptops over past two decades, I never had to call Dell for support, but Apple on the other hand... And no, I didn't get a new Magsafe 2 charger or MacBook Pro on the spot.
maximus-decimus 5y ago
I find it funny that your definition of "getting it fixed" is throwing the whole thing to the garbage can and giving you a brand new one. It fixes your problem, but I wouldn't exactly call that fixing the phone.
- Jgrubb 5y ago
  I find it funny that you make the assumption that it goes into the trash instead of going for refurbishment so it can be sold again. Even if it did go into the "trash" there are plenty of videos out there on apple's device recycling tech.
  - diffeomorphism 5y ago
    Unfortunately that "assumption" is pretty well founded: https://www.ifixit.com/Device/AirPods https://www.ifixit.com/Device/AirPods ... 0/10 is a statement. https://www.inputmag.com/culture/apples-repair-policies-are-utterly-shameful-and-shouldnt-be-allowed-e-waste-recycling-macbooks-t2 https://www.inputmag.com/culture/apples-repair-policies-are-...
- jmyeet 5y ago
  Who says that device isn't fixed and sold as refurbished? Or used for parts for other repairs? Or simply recycled? > It fixes your problem, but I wouldn't exactly call that fixing the phone. What kind of copium is this? Devices break. Even the most reliable devices just break less. What matters to the customer is how that is resolved. The customer wants a working device. Period. Would this be somehow better if Apple sent the device off for fixing and I'd get it back in 3 weeks (maybe)?
- epicide 5y ago
  They clearly mean "fixed" from the perspective of having a useable device, which is inline with the original article. Yes, the (lack of) repairability is a problem, but it's separate. What's more, we can expect Apple at least attempts to refurbish some devices. Even if it's just for parts. That's more than what Samsung did in the original article.
_fat_santa 5y ago
I will hand it to Apple and Amazon. I've had a few lost packages with Amazon and in every case it was a no questions asked exchange or return, like I'm pissed that the package got lost but it's hard to stay mad when Amazon responds that way. Not sure how Genius Bar support has evolved but I remember my little brother got an original iPad when it came out. Well kid took it to school, and someone kicked his backpack with the iPad inside and the screen got smashed. We took it to Apple and I remember the rep saying something along the lines of "we understand this was your fault, but we'll replace it anyways". Apple clearly is thinking about the long game, the price to replace an iPad pales in comparison to what that customer will spend on your products if you treat them right.
ineedasername 5y ago
Apple isn't immune from this sort of thing. A long time back I had an iPhone < 6 months old that bricked on me. I thought it would be a simple replacement but the Genius tech told me the moisture sensor had triggered and they couldn't do a warranty replacement. My phone had never been close to a drop of water, and it was going around the news at the time that this issue with false positives on the moisture sensor were common, but Apple wouldn't make good on it. I quit Apple then & there-- previously I had used apple laptops, iPods, iPhones, iPads since they had first been released, but decided I wouldn't pay their premium anymore if I wasn't going to get premium service. About two years later I got a small settlement from a class action brought against Apple over their use of faulty moisture sensors. Not enough to cover repair cost, though I didn't get it repaired, I switched to Android.
stemlord 5y ago
>This sort of convenience is what gives people confidence in buying Apple products. Fwiw I had the exact same experience replacing my Galaxy screen at a general repair store. Same day.
abandonliberty 5y ago
>Dell charger? Not so much. Everything now runs on usb-c, Apple included, with the ridiculous exception of iPhones.
- llampx 5y ago
  Dell still has models with barrel chargers. Some of them do support USB-C charging as well but only have one USB-C port. I own one of those, regrettably.

by jmyeet 5y ago

maccard 5y ago

> The narrow take is that you're kinda crazy to buy a folding phone but Samsung was selling them so is really on the hook for the inevitable issues. It's not up to a customer to decide whether a product is "technically" feasible. Lots of things that "seem" impossible or unreasonable are usable and practical, e.g. compact high wattage laptop chargers compared to the absolute _units_ we used to get and still get on cheaper laptop models. The blame here is squarely on samsung; They decided that this product was fit for sale and as a result need to support it, whether or not people who buy it are "kinda crazy"

wraptile 5y ago

> The story of getting it fixed is really why people love Apple and even Amazon. It's really one of those anecdotal experiences. I used Samsung devices exclusively because they have RMA offices all around SEA region. On the other hand Apple's iCare in my current town has 2.2 stars on google reviews which I didn't know was even possible. When my work iPhone's battery died I decided to drop 70$ from my own pocket rather than deal with iCare - that's how bad it was. All I'm saying that warranty service anecdotes are just that - anecdotes, and your milage might vary.

nefitty 5y ago
Not to nerd snipe anyone (I'm having to stop myself as I write this) but couldn't you gather the star ratings of all of these sorts of repair centers/stores and get the overall average? It could be used as a sort of proximate net promoter score and we would be able to more objectively talk about the differences in quality...
jmyeet 5y ago
> I used Samsung devices exclusively because they have RMA offices all around SEA region. And how long does that take? Do you need to speak to Samsung support on the phone to get an RMA number? How easy is that? That seems to be the process according to Google. What have you had to get repaired this way? What was the process? > On the other hand Apple's iCare in my current town has 2.2 stars on google reviews First, what is iCare? Do you mean an Apple Store? Are you referring to AppleCare? Or something third party? I'm genuinely curious: which store? Can you point to it specifically? > When my work iPhone's battery died I decided to drop 70$ from my own pocket rather than deal with iCare - that's how bad it was. This story doesn't really pass the smell test to me. Who is dropping money to fix a work phone rather than having work deal with it? Was this out of pocket or expensed?
- neurostimulant 5y ago
  AFAIK Apple doesn't have first party stores on most SEA countries, so the stores/service centers are probably owned by 3rd party authorized distributors. My own experience with android manufacturers' service center in SEA is you simply come in to their store, hand over the device, and get a quote later via email (if the damage is not covered by warranty). Direct device replacement on the spot is very rare, never even see it happening myself.
mmcnl 5y ago
What is iCare? As far as I know, Apple doesn't offer any products or services named iCare, nor are their stores named iCare.

thathndude 5y ago

A corollary to this take is that I don’t think folks appreciate how much Apple and Amazon have moved expectations. We’ve definitely adapted to this new normal that is insanely consumer friendly. But as soon as we get a taste of the way things used to be, it’s eye opening how far we’ve come. I think Google might be more of the same, but I just don’t have enough experience with the company. I’ve heard horror stories from Microsoft when it comes to hardware.

ValentineC 5y ago

> The story of getting it fixed is really why people love Apple and even Amazon. > I've had the Wifi go unreliable on an iPad. I got a Genius appointment for later that day. They confirmed the Wifi module was shot and just gave me a new device on the spot. They even offered to do the transfer for me. This sort of convenience is what gives people confidence in buying Apple products. I'm still using Apple hardware myself, but I daresay that if Apple corporate decides not to admit fault and fix something, users will be SOL too. Apple has never admitted fault for their shoddy MagSafe charger cable insulation, which always end up disintegrating and spewing blue stuff all over my furniture. I've had multiple cables flake over the years, and every time I bring the the charger to a Genius bar (so far: Australia, Japan, and Singapore), they've always fallen back to "policy" and blamed it on me for not taking care of it properly.

ricardobeat 5y ago
I've heard this before and am still puzzled by it. I've been using Apple devices for over a decade, and only ever had one or two phone charger cables fray, but they were really heavily used and looked like they were used in a farm for months. The vast majority still looks perfectly fine. I guess there must be small habits that have a great effect on degradation. Like stowing away the charger after every use vs keeping it in place at a desk, for example.
- ajyotirmay 5y ago
  that might be a thing, but chargers are supposed to be portable unless I'm buying a power supply for a computer. Apple's cables aren't good design, and planned obsolescence
tooltalk 5y ago
same here. I had numerous technical problems with my rMacbook Pro, but having to pay Apple tax every year for the Magsafe 2 design/material defect was most infuriating. Having owned several Dell and Apple laptops over past two decades, I never had to call Dell for support, but Apple on the other hand... And no, I didn't get a new Magsafe 2 charger or MacBook Pro on the spot.

maximus-decimus 5y ago

I find it funny that your definition of "getting it fixed" is throwing the whole thing to the garbage can and giving you a brand new one. It fixes your problem, but I wouldn't exactly call that fixing the phone.

Jgrubb 5y ago
I find it funny that you make the assumption that it goes into the trash instead of going for refurbishment so it can be sold again. Even if it did go into the "trash" there are plenty of videos out there on apple's device recycling tech.
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  Unfortunately that "assumption" is pretty well founded: https://www.ifixit.com/Device/AirPods https://www.ifixit.com/Device/AirPods ... 0/10 is a statement. https://www.inputmag.com/culture/apples-repair-policies-are-utterly-shameful-and-shouldnt-be-allowed-e-waste-recycling-macbooks-t2 https://www.inputmag.com/culture/apples-repair-policies-are-...
jmyeet 5y ago
Who says that device isn't fixed and sold as refurbished? Or used for parts for other repairs? Or simply recycled? > It fixes your problem, but I wouldn't exactly call that fixing the phone. What kind of copium is this? Devices break. Even the most reliable devices just break less. What matters to the customer is how that is resolved. The customer wants a working device. Period. Would this be somehow better if Apple sent the device off for fixing and I'd get it back in 3 weeks (maybe)?
epicide 5y ago
They clearly mean "fixed" from the perspective of having a useable device, which is inline with the original article. Yes, the (lack of) repairability is a problem, but it's separate. What's more, we can expect Apple at least attempts to refurbish some devices. Even if it's just for parts. That's more than what Samsung did in the original article.

_fat_santa 5y ago

I will hand it to Apple and Amazon. I've had a few lost packages with Amazon and in every case it was a no questions asked exchange or return, like I'm pissed that the package got lost but it's hard to stay mad when Amazon responds that way. Not sure how Genius Bar support has evolved but I remember my little brother got an original iPad when it came out. Well kid took it to school, and someone kicked his backpack with the iPad inside and the screen got smashed. We took it to Apple and I remember the rep saying something along the lines of "we understand this was your fault, but we'll replace it anyways". Apple clearly is thinking about the long game, the price to replace an iPad pales in comparison to what that customer will spend on your products if you treat them right.

ineedasername 5y ago

Apple isn't immune from this sort of thing. A long time back I had an iPhone < 6 months old that bricked on me. I thought it would be a simple replacement but the Genius tech told me the moisture sensor had triggered and they couldn't do a warranty replacement. My phone had never been close to a drop of water, and it was going around the news at the time that this issue with false positives on the moisture sensor were common, but Apple wouldn't make good on it. I quit Apple then & there-- previously I had used apple laptops, iPods, iPhones, iPads since they had first been released, but decided I wouldn't pay their premium anymore if I wasn't going to get premium service. About two years later I got a small settlement from a class action brought against Apple over their use of faulty moisture sensors. Not enough to cover repair cost, though I didn't get it repaired, I switched to Android.

stemlord 5y ago

>This sort of convenience is what gives people confidence in buying Apple products. Fwiw I had the exact same experience replacing my Galaxy screen at a general repair store. Same day.

abandonliberty 5y ago

>Dell charger? Not so much. Everything now runs on usb-c, Apple included, with the ridiculous exception of iPhones.

llampx 5y ago
Dell still has models with barrel chargers. Some of them do support USB-C charging as well but only have one USB-C port. I own one of those, regrettably.