3 ms·

> They're a slimy company made up of unscrupulous people trying to squeeze every last drop out of every rock. Unfortunately, i find it hard in this day and age

> They're a slimy company made up of unscrupulous people trying to squeeze every last drop out of every rock. Unfortunately, i find it hard in this day and age to find a hardware manufacturer that's not abusive. Do you know of a hardware manufacturer that has a reasonable warranty policy, makes it easy to repair the hardware (no screws or standard screws, definitely no glue), publishes datasheets (specs) and does not lock the bootloader? I think when it comes to mobile phones, Fairphone Librem and Pinephone are the only three that get close, but none of them checks all the boxes. I'm all ears for suggestions, whether it's for phones, networking equipment, or whatever.

SixDouble5321 5y ago
Well, it's going to cost more up front, but they do exist. EVGA has had even better warranties in the past but still have a decent one and I have always had good experiences with their customer service. I have an LG dishwasher, and it has a service manual inside the housing and I can and have bought parts online. Consumer reports has data about reliability of various household goods and appliances. IFixit is a good source to check before you buy a cellphone and other various things.
dredmorbius 5y ago
For laptops, Lenovo are ... just barely, and only on some product lines, holding that reputation. System76 and Framework seem to have this reputation. I've yet to buy from them, but they're on my list of potential vendors. Fairphone, Librem, and Pine, similarly. I'd look to Louis Rossman for reviews and recommendations.
- hef19898 5y ago
  I like Lenovo, even more since they started native and firmware support for Ubuntu on some of the laptops. When it comes to phones, I think a Pixel running a non-Google Android version seems to be decent. At least my old Pixel 2 is. Not really looking forward to replacing it... But the screen is shot (again... the main reason why I never come to sell a used phone...).
  - dredmorbius 5y ago
    Just for the record: - I've owned and/or used Thinkpad laptops for over 20 years. Occasional others, including MacBook Air and Dell. Old-school ThinkPad is damned hard to beat. - In the phone space there's virtually nothing that appeals, with much of that being the technology, carriers, and practice. If I have to carry one ... I probably won't anyway. - Android is a disaster on numerous fronts. The fact that it's also the best contender running (PinePhone / Librem, please up your game* is ... well, it just is. Based on over a decade of use and multiple devices.
Hnrobert42 5y ago
You are placing a much higher bar than GP. Yes, by your standard almost all companies fail. But I think GP’s point is fair that Samsung goes well beyond Apple’s screws and glue by also collecting collecting a ton of data that you wouldn’t expect.
- southerntofu 5y ago
  I'm placing a much higher bar yes, but don't you believe it's a very low bar that should be a legal requirement? It's not like i'm asking for the phone to have 10y warranty and available spare parts for 20 years... although wait i'm actually asking for that it sounds plenty reasonable to tackle the electronics waste problem which is uncomfortably related to climate change. So yes relative to the current market, my expectations are high. But in absolute, and if you forget about all the crapware we've been fed in the past two decades, does that sound actually unreasonable? PS: it appears iOS does plenty of background data collection too https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28741262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28741262
  - tonyedgecombe 5y ago
    >I'm placing a much higher bar yes, but don't you believe it's a very low bar that should be a legal requirement? I don't. I want my phone to be reliable and receive updates for a long time. I have no intention of taking it apart and I think that is the case for most people. If more glue makes the phone more resistant to water damage or breakage when I drop it then that is better for me.
    - southerntofu 5y ago
      > I want my phone to be reliable and receive updates for a long time. The only way to ensure that if to publish the complete datasheets so that operating systems can maintain drivers. You cannot rely on a hardware manufacturer to provide updates, as it could go out of business any day. > If more glue makes the phone more resistant to water damage or breakage when I drop it then that is better for me. There's plenty of hardware design techniques (disclaimer: not my field) you can use for structural integrity and you don't need glue. Even if you don't have intention to take it apart, if it's glued it probably means that it will be really hard to replace the battery when it dies after 2-5 years. If you want durable hardware, you need hardware that you (or a skilled shopperson) can take apart and where you can replace individual parts. That's why cars can 100% be taken down and why electronics in cars (over 100 microprocessors in an average car?!) are a worrying development for maintainability/durability.

SixDouble5321 5y ago

Well, it's going to cost more up front, but they do exist. EVGA has had even better warranties in the past but still have a decent one and I have always had good experiences with their customer service. I have an LG dishwasher, and it has a service manual inside the housing and I can and have bought parts online. Consumer reports has data about reliability of various household goods and appliances. IFixit is a good source to check before you buy a cellphone and other various things.

dredmorbius 5y ago

For laptops, Lenovo are ... just barely, and only on some product lines, holding that reputation. System76 and Framework seem to have this reputation. I've yet to buy from them, but they're on my list of potential vendors. Fairphone, Librem, and Pine, similarly. I'd look to Louis Rossman for reviews and recommendations.

hef19898 5y ago
I like Lenovo, even more since they started native and firmware support for Ubuntu on some of the laptops. When it comes to phones, I think a Pixel running a non-Google Android version seems to be decent. At least my old Pixel 2 is. Not really looking forward to replacing it... But the screen is shot (again... the main reason why I never come to sell a used phone...).
- dredmorbius 5y ago
  Just for the record: - I've owned and/or used Thinkpad laptops for over 20 years. Occasional others, including MacBook Air and Dell. Old-school ThinkPad is damned hard to beat. - In the phone space there's virtually nothing that appeals, with much of that being the technology, carriers, and practice. If I have to carry one ... I probably won't anyway. - Android is a disaster on numerous fronts. The fact that it's also the best contender running (PinePhone / Librem, please up your game* is ... well, it just is. Based on over a decade of use and multiple devices.

Hnrobert42 5y ago

You are placing a much higher bar than GP. Yes, by your standard almost all companies fail. But I think GP’s point is fair that Samsung goes well beyond Apple’s screws and glue by also collecting collecting a ton of data that you wouldn’t expect.

southerntofu 5y ago
I'm placing a much higher bar yes, but don't you believe it's a very low bar that should be a legal requirement? It's not like i'm asking for the phone to have 10y warranty and available spare parts for 20 years... although wait i'm actually asking for that it sounds plenty reasonable to tackle the electronics waste problem which is uncomfortably related to climate change. So yes relative to the current market, my expectations are high. But in absolute, and if you forget about all the crapware we've been fed in the past two decades, does that sound actually unreasonable? PS: it appears iOS does plenty of background data collection too https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28741262 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28741262
- tonyedgecombe 5y ago
  >I'm placing a much higher bar yes, but don't you believe it's a very low bar that should be a legal requirement? I don't. I want my phone to be reliable and receive updates for a long time. I have no intention of taking it apart and I think that is the case for most people. If more glue makes the phone more resistant to water damage or breakage when I drop it then that is better for me.
  - southerntofu 5y ago
    > I want my phone to be reliable and receive updates for a long time. The only way to ensure that if to publish the complete datasheets so that operating systems can maintain drivers. You cannot rely on a hardware manufacturer to provide updates, as it could go out of business any day. > If more glue makes the phone more resistant to water damage or breakage when I drop it then that is better for me. There's plenty of hardware design techniques (disclaimer: not my field) you can use for structural integrity and you don't need glue. Even if you don't have intention to take it apart, if it's glued it probably means that it will be really hard to replace the battery when it dies after 2-5 years. If you want durable hardware, you need hardware that you (or a skilled shopperson) can take apart and where you can replace individual parts. That's why cars can 100% be taken down and why electronics in cars (over 100 microprocessors in an average car?!) are a worrying development for maintainability/durability.