10 ms·

Magpies have outwitted scientists by helping each other remove tracking devices

183 points by clouddrover 5y ago

danuker 5y ago
Amazing! Maybe a better approach is to follow them from a distance with small autonomous drones.
- bryanrasmussen 5y ago
  I'm pretty sure 3 or 4 magpies working together can take down a small drone.
  - paranoidrobot 5y ago
    A Melbourne-based pilot vlogger/content creator had his drone attacked by some Magpies in 2020[1]. So, at least those, didn't like having a Drone around. No doubt they could take one down, but I suspect it'd result in some injury to the birds, too (from making contact with the props) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY71Fywr8Pk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY71Fywr8Pk
  - clouddrover 5y ago
    One raven giving it a go: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-11/wing-resumes-drone-deliveries-after-raven-attacks/100689690 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-11/wing-resumes-drone-de... One wedge-tailed eagle being more effective: https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-05-24/wedge-tailed-eagle-takes-down-drone-over-wa-wheat-farm/8554120 https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-05-24/wedge-tailed-ea...
- NamTaf 5y ago
  In breeding season, magpies are notoriously territorial. To the point where cyclists all over Australia have zip ties tied to their helmets to act as spike-like deterrants to swooping magpies. They would absolutely ruin a drone in about 3 seconds flat with no worries. See also: https://www.hunterwildlife.org.au/living-with-our-magpies/ https://www.hunterwildlife.org.au/living-with-our-magpies/
  - Anthony-G 5y ago
    I liked the tip in your link advising people to > Attach fake eyes, or an image of eyes, to the back of a hat or helmet. Magpies will mostly attack from behind, so if they think you are watching them out of the back of your head, they will be less likely to swoop or attack. If you do not have a hat or helmet, try wearing your sunglasses back-to-front.
- gonzo41 5y ago
  That may not work out so well, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU8sJ8aeyC4&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU8sJ8aeyC4&t=0s This is an Australian wedge tailed eagle all out against a drone.
paranoidrobot 5y ago
For non-Aussies: This is talking about the Australian Magpie, which is distinct from other international birds. They have some beautiful calls/songs, and are notorious for being extremely territorial and will swoop/attack any intruders during mating season. They also recognise individual humans - which can be good or bad depending on your relationship with them. Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n-d_u_jSJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n-d_u_jSJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSbDcks_uA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSbDcks_uA
- bradrn 5y ago
  Australian magpies truly are amazing birds. I recall once seeing two young magpies lying on their side and play-wrestling. [Image: https://imgur.com/CxRsLE3 https://imgur.com/CxRsLE3] When one got tired, the other kept following it around — it obviously wanted to keep on playing. And when I have lunch outside, I regularly have magpies trying to creep up on me to steal my food, though they haven’t yet figured out that it doesn’t work when I’m looking straight them. (Which takes some courage; having a magpie look down its beak at you is a fairly unnerving experience.) I am not surprised at all to hear that they can work together to remove a mere backpack.
  - mr_toad 5y ago
    > they haven’t yet figured out that it doesn’t work when I’m looking straight them. They don’t have forward facing eyes, so they might not understand that a human has to turn its head to see something.
    - bradrn 5y ago
      > … they might not understand that a human has to turn its head to see something. I’m pretty sure they understand this well — it’s common knowledge that a swooping magpie will stop attacking if you stare straight at it. (Of course, ‘common knowledge’ isn’t necessarily correct, but a quick search seems to confirm this case.)
- waste_monk 5y ago
jakear 5y ago
Anyone else get bothered seeing wild animals tagged like that? I recall watching a documentary where they were tagging rhinos and elephants for “conservation” purposes, but oops some of them suffocated during tranquilization. Even if everything goes perfectly, it still feels like a massive invasion of privacy, and it’s pretty clear the animals really do not like it given how hard they’ll try to remove them. I’ll eat my fair share of farmed meat so maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, yet I remain bothered seeing wild animals forced into a constantly monitored and physically uncomfortable situation. Perhaps my concerns could be alleviated by papers showing direct positive outcomes for the species under observation?
- micromacrofoot 5y ago
  Elephants and Rhinos are endangered due to poaching and habitat destruction, some on an extremely critical level. I'm sure conservationists would rather not tag them, but given the alternative might be extinction, what else is there to do?
- Sharlin 5y ago
  I would be astonished if they had a concept of privacy that could be violated by a tracking device, and even more astonished if they could somehow deduce that the device is actually sending invisible rays that contain information about their whereabouts to humans. Moreover, I've seen no evidence that tracking devices in general cause discomfort or stress, or that animals tend to try hard to remove them, before these magpies. Indeed that would defeat the whole purpose of a tracking device by changing the animal's behavior, which is why they're obviously designed so as to minimize any such change in behavior.
  - jstanley 5y ago
    I agree they likely have no knowledge or concept of privacy, but just wanted to point out: > astonished if they could somehow deduce that the device is actually sending invisible rays that contain information about their whereabouts The fact that the victim is unaware does not excuse the crime!
dwheeler 5y ago
This is a great story. Frustrating for the scientists. Amusing for the rest of us.
ourmandave 5y ago
Next presser: "We've changed our research and are now studying how Magpies defeat tracking devices. No further questions."
- jbotz 5y ago
  "This research may in the future lead to new ways humans can help each other remove surreptitiously placed Apple AirTags."
forgotmypw17 5y ago
The scientists should themselves try wearing a 1-pound weight (proportional to this tracker compared to the magpie's weight) strapped to them 24-7 and unable to take it off before they make any further designs. I do understand that this is about trying to help the magpies, but it still seems a bit hard-headed, like many other efforts to "help" those whom we're also harming with our activity.
- philliphaydon 5y ago
  The device weighs 0.0022 pounds. Humans carry orders of magnitude more weight in fat on their body. I doubt people Would notice 400 grams after 10 minutes.
  - forgotmypw17 5y ago
    Would you notice it if you could never remove it, around the clock, even when sleeping, bathing, having sex, etc.
    - philliphaydon 5y ago
      I have permanent nerve damage in 2 fingers on my left hand which gives permanent pins and needles. You get used to it.
      - forgotmypw17 5y ago
        Just to ensure I'm understanding your analogy correctly, are you saying that because you have gotten used to the nerve damage in your fingers, it is OK to arbitrarily and non-consensually inflict nerve damage on other people, if it is for a good cause?
        philliphaydon 5y ago
        > it is OK to arbitrarily and non-consensually inflict nerve damage on other people If that's what you got out of this then I feel sorry for you. If you want to get consent from birds and other animals so that we can study their behavior and habbits so we can prevent issues caused by urbanization, deforsting, solar/wind power, etc. By all means go and get consent. In the mean time people will continue to do real work with a minor inconvience to a few animals for the greater good.
tannhaeuser 5y ago
Magpies, like all crow-like birds (or at least that's how they are historically lumped together under Rabenvögel in German along with crows, ravens, and jackdaws, probably because they're scavengers) are fascinating, intelligent creatures. I've heard European magpies bring gifts when they take away food, like small decorative ensembles of sticks, stones, shells, and pieces of metal they picked up.
- Shatnerz 5y ago
  > at least that's how they are historically lumped together under Rabenvögel in German along with crows, ravens, and jackdaws, probably because they're scavengers Corvidae or Corvids in English (from the Latin word for "raven" I believe): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae
  - Fnoord 5y ago
    > Corvidae or Corvids in English (from the Latin word for "raven" I believe): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae The other way around: Raven is an English word, a species; Corvidae the Latin one of the family of species which includes the species raven (words ending on 'ae' is multiple in Latin, and typically denotes a Latin etymology (Latin origin)).
    - throwaway894345 5y ago
      The parent is correct, "corvus" is Latin for raven. The scientific name for the family of species is also derived from "corvus", but it means "raven" nevertheless. In other words, the science community named the family after the latin word for raven, not the other way around.
- dangerbird2 5y ago
  This article is about Australian magpies, which aren't related to European Magpies and other corvids. They're known more for their extreme territoriality than for their intelligence, but OP's article clearly shows they're no dummies either.
u2077 5y ago
Mag pi-hole?
mr_toad 5y ago
Magpies have learned to remove tracking devices, but we haven’t. Makes you wonder which is the smarter species?

183 points by clouddrover 5y ago

danuker 5y ago

Amazing! Maybe a better approach is to follow them from a distance with small autonomous drones.

bryanrasmussen 5y ago
I'm pretty sure 3 or 4 magpies working together can take down a small drone.
- paranoidrobot 5y ago
  A Melbourne-based pilot vlogger/content creator had his drone attacked by some Magpies in 2020[1]. So, at least those, didn't like having a Drone around. No doubt they could take one down, but I suspect it'd result in some injury to the birds, too (from making contact with the props) [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY71Fywr8Pk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TY71Fywr8Pk
- clouddrover 5y ago
  One raven giving it a go: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-11/wing-resumes-drone-deliveries-after-raven-attacks/100689690 https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-12-11/wing-resumes-drone-de... One wedge-tailed eagle being more effective: https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-05-24/wedge-tailed-eagle-takes-down-drone-over-wa-wheat-farm/8554120 https://www.abc.net.au/news/rural/2017-05-24/wedge-tailed-ea...
NamTaf 5y ago
In breeding season, magpies are notoriously territorial. To the point where cyclists all over Australia have zip ties tied to their helmets to act as spike-like deterrants to swooping magpies. They would absolutely ruin a drone in about 3 seconds flat with no worries. See also: https://www.hunterwildlife.org.au/living-with-our-magpies/ https://www.hunterwildlife.org.au/living-with-our-magpies/
- Anthony-G 5y ago
  I liked the tip in your link advising people to > Attach fake eyes, or an image of eyes, to the back of a hat or helmet. Magpies will mostly attack from behind, so if they think you are watching them out of the back of your head, they will be less likely to swoop or attack. If you do not have a hat or helmet, try wearing your sunglasses back-to-front.
gonzo41 5y ago
That may not work out so well, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU8sJ8aeyC4&t=0s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UU8sJ8aeyC4&t=0s This is an Australian wedge tailed eagle all out against a drone.

paranoidrobot 5y ago

For non-Aussies: This is talking about the Australian Magpie, which is distinct from other international birds. They have some beautiful calls/songs, and are notorious for being extremely territorial and will swoop/attack any intruders during mating season. They also recognise individual humans - which can be good or bad depending on your relationship with them. Examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n-d_u_jSJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1n-d_u_jSJY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSbDcks_uA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KqSbDcks_uA

bradrn 5y ago
Australian magpies truly are amazing birds. I recall once seeing two young magpies lying on their side and play-wrestling. [Image: https://imgur.com/CxRsLE3 https://imgur.com/CxRsLE3] When one got tired, the other kept following it around — it obviously wanted to keep on playing. And when I have lunch outside, I regularly have magpies trying to creep up on me to steal my food, though they haven’t yet figured out that it doesn’t work when I’m looking straight them. (Which takes some courage; having a magpie look down its beak at you is a fairly unnerving experience.) I am not surprised at all to hear that they can work together to remove a mere backpack.
- mr_toad 5y ago
  > they haven’t yet figured out that it doesn’t work when I’m looking straight them. They don’t have forward facing eyes, so they might not understand that a human has to turn its head to see something.
  - bradrn 5y ago
    > … they might not understand that a human has to turn its head to see something. I’m pretty sure they understand this well — it’s common knowledge that a swooping magpie will stop attacking if you stare straight at it. (Of course, ‘common knowledge’ isn’t necessarily correct, but a quick search seems to confirm this case.)
waste_monk 5y ago

jakear 5y ago

Anyone else get bothered seeing wild animals tagged like that? I recall watching a documentary where they were tagging rhinos and elephants for “conservation” purposes, but oops some of them suffocated during tranquilization. Even if everything goes perfectly, it still feels like a massive invasion of privacy, and it’s pretty clear the animals really do not like it given how hard they’ll try to remove them. I’ll eat my fair share of farmed meat so maybe I should just keep my mouth shut, yet I remain bothered seeing wild animals forced into a constantly monitored and physically uncomfortable situation. Perhaps my concerns could be alleviated by papers showing direct positive outcomes for the species under observation?

micromacrofoot 5y ago
Elephants and Rhinos are endangered due to poaching and habitat destruction, some on an extremely critical level. I'm sure conservationists would rather not tag them, but given the alternative might be extinction, what else is there to do?
Sharlin 5y ago
I would be astonished if they had a concept of privacy that could be violated by a tracking device, and even more astonished if they could somehow deduce that the device is actually sending invisible rays that contain information about their whereabouts to humans. Moreover, I've seen no evidence that tracking devices in general cause discomfort or stress, or that animals tend to try hard to remove them, before these magpies. Indeed that would defeat the whole purpose of a tracking device by changing the animal's behavior, which is why they're obviously designed so as to minimize any such change in behavior.
- jstanley 5y ago
  I agree they likely have no knowledge or concept of privacy, but just wanted to point out: > astonished if they could somehow deduce that the device is actually sending invisible rays that contain information about their whereabouts The fact that the victim is unaware does not excuse the crime!

dwheeler 5y ago

This is a great story. Frustrating for the scientists. Amusing for the rest of us.

ourmandave 5y ago

Next presser: "We've changed our research and are now studying how Magpies defeat tracking devices. No further questions."

jbotz 5y ago
"This research may in the future lead to new ways humans can help each other remove surreptitiously placed Apple AirTags."

forgotmypw17 5y ago

The scientists should themselves try wearing a 1-pound weight (proportional to this tracker compared to the magpie's weight) strapped to them 24-7 and unable to take it off before they make any further designs. I do understand that this is about trying to help the magpies, but it still seems a bit hard-headed, like many other efforts to "help" those whom we're also harming with our activity.

philliphaydon 5y ago
The device weighs 0.0022 pounds. Humans carry orders of magnitude more weight in fat on their body. I doubt people Would notice 400 grams after 10 minutes.
- forgotmypw17 5y ago
  Would you notice it if you could never remove it, around the clock, even when sleeping, bathing, having sex, etc.
  - philliphaydon 5y ago
    I have permanent nerve damage in 2 fingers on my left hand which gives permanent pins and needles. You get used to it.
    - forgotmypw17 5y ago
      Just to ensure I'm understanding your analogy correctly, are you saying that because you have gotten used to the nerve damage in your fingers, it is OK to arbitrarily and non-consensually inflict nerve damage on other people, if it is for a good cause?
      - philliphaydon 5y ago
        > it is OK to arbitrarily and non-consensually inflict nerve damage on other people If that's what you got out of this then I feel sorry for you. If you want to get consent from birds and other animals so that we can study their behavior and habbits so we can prevent issues caused by urbanization, deforsting, solar/wind power, etc. By all means go and get consent. In the mean time people will continue to do real work with a minor inconvience to a few animals for the greater good.

tannhaeuser 5y ago

Magpies, like all crow-like birds (or at least that's how they are historically lumped together under Rabenvögel in German along with crows, ravens, and jackdaws, probably because they're scavengers) are fascinating, intelligent creatures. I've heard European magpies bring gifts when they take away food, like small decorative ensembles of sticks, stones, shells, and pieces of metal they picked up.

Shatnerz 5y ago
> at least that's how they are historically lumped together under Rabenvögel in German along with crows, ravens, and jackdaws, probably because they're scavengers Corvidae or Corvids in English (from the Latin word for "raven" I believe): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae
- Fnoord 5y ago
  > Corvidae or Corvids in English (from the Latin word for "raven" I believe): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corvidae The other way around: Raven is an English word, a species; Corvidae the Latin one of the family of species which includes the species raven (words ending on 'ae' is multiple in Latin, and typically denotes a Latin etymology (Latin origin)).
  - throwaway894345 5y ago
    The parent is correct, "corvus" is Latin for raven. The scientific name for the family of species is also derived from "corvus", but it means "raven" nevertheless. In other words, the science community named the family after the latin word for raven, not the other way around.
dangerbird2 5y ago
This article is about Australian magpies, which aren't related to European Magpies and other corvids. They're known more for their extreme territoriality than for their intelligence, but OP's article clearly shows they're no dummies either.

u2077 5y ago

Mag pi-hole?

mr_toad 5y ago

Magpies have learned to remove tracking devices, but we haven’t. Makes you wonder which is the smarter species?