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Of course, but is fulfilling your social needs a requirement for being a good teammate? And does the team have any responsibility to me to allow me to work in a

Of course, but is fulfilling your social needs a requirement for being a good teammate? And does the team have any responsibility to me to allow me to work in a comfortable environment (from home)?

closeparen 5y ago
Trust, respect, collaboration, mentorship, patience, sacrifice, etc. are services I am happy to perform for my in-office colleagues because they are real people really in front of my tickling the empathy parts of my ape brain, and I identify with them as my people. You are a rectangle on a computer screen. The same expectations apply but the ape-brain emotional supports do not kick in; it is more difficult and less pleasant work. We don’t have to be best friends, but yes, showing up is part of the “teammate” package. You don’t get to withdraw that part and still demand all the same things from me.
- thr0waway4473 5y ago
  There are also many of us who are fully capable of providing those services and treating our coworkers like "real people" remotely. If you're working in an org that is forcing your to work in an environment that you despise, why not leave for one that better aligns with your values rather than treating your coworkers like subhumans?
  - closeparen 5y ago
    That’s the plan! In order to do that though, there has to be some team which requires its members to show up (those who were remote during the pandemic, those who may wish to join later), which the parent feels is unfair. I think both our preferences are legitimate and people should be able to sort themselves into teams that suit their preferences. I understand people are distressed about commuting and the office. I’m also distressed about the prospect of spending the majority of my waking hours over the next 30 years on Zoom. If that’s the way things are shaping up I need to go be a farmer or something.
    - MaknMoreGtnLess 5y ago
      > If that’s the way things are shaping up I need to go be a farmer or something. Is this something you entertain as an actual possibility or shudder to think about?
      - closeparen 5y ago
        I knew I was meant to be a software engineer from about 9 years old until March 2020. I think I will code for the rest of my life. Hopefully I’ll find some way to collaborate in person with people about technical projects for the long haul. But I don’t know how many more videoconferences I can take. 5.5 hours of them today. Anything to make it stop.
    - Buttons840 5y ago
      Just to be clear, I don't think it's always unfair for companies to require employees to "show up". I only think it is unfair if the only reason they are doing so is to satisfy the personal social needs of employees, because they are putting the personal needs of some employees above the personal needs of other employees.
      - paulcole 5y ago
        > because they are putting the personal needs of some employees above the personal needs of other employees. If a company stays remote because you do not personally need social interaction at the office, what has just happened? Your personal needs have been put above the personal needs of other employees.
        arubania2 5y ago
        I don’t think the parent was suggesting that companies stay remote _because_ the employees don’t need interaction. (IMO companies stay this way because it’s simply cheaper and the hiring pool is bigger, but that’s not important in this discussion) It just happens to benefit those whose prefer to stay at home.
- MaknMoreGtnLess 5y ago
  > We don’t have to be best friends, but yes, showing up is part of the “teammate” package. You don’t get to withdraw that part and still demand all the same things from me. … but they arn't. The person who has meaningful and deep relationships outside work isn't demanding all the same things from you. Most work are in dense cities and cities are inherently expensive. For the commute to be meaningful, everyone in your team has to be within a short distance of these dense cities. The “teammate” package you propose is pretty expensive all things considered. You might not realize nor care about the expense but the teammates might. In the end, the company cares about productive output. Mercenary or not, companies that have the most productive output that makes the customers happy are going to win. My money are on companies that go remote, keep costs down and pass on those savings internally (employees) and externally (customers). My money is not on companies that are forced to hire people within driving distance of some arbitrary office.

Of course, but is fulfilling your social needs a requirement for being a good teammate? And does the team have any responsibility to me to allow me to work in a comfortable environment (from home)?

closeparen 5y ago

Trust, respect, collaboration, mentorship, patience, sacrifice, etc. are services I am happy to perform for my in-office colleagues because they are real people really in front of my tickling the empathy parts of my ape brain, and I identify with them as my people. You are a rectangle on a computer screen. The same expectations apply but the ape-brain emotional supports do not kick in; it is more difficult and less pleasant work. We don’t have to be best friends, but yes, showing up is part of the “teammate” package. You don’t get to withdraw that part and still demand all the same things from me.

thr0waway4473 5y ago
There are also many of us who are fully capable of providing those services and treating our coworkers like "real people" remotely. If you're working in an org that is forcing your to work in an environment that you despise, why not leave for one that better aligns with your values rather than treating your coworkers like subhumans?
- closeparen 5y ago
  That’s the plan! In order to do that though, there has to be some team which requires its members to show up (those who were remote during the pandemic, those who may wish to join later), which the parent feels is unfair. I think both our preferences are legitimate and people should be able to sort themselves into teams that suit their preferences. I understand people are distressed about commuting and the office. I’m also distressed about the prospect of spending the majority of my waking hours over the next 30 years on Zoom. If that’s the way things are shaping up I need to go be a farmer or something.
  - MaknMoreGtnLess 5y ago
    > If that’s the way things are shaping up I need to go be a farmer or something. Is this something you entertain as an actual possibility or shudder to think about?
    - closeparen 5y ago
      I knew I was meant to be a software engineer from about 9 years old until March 2020. I think I will code for the rest of my life. Hopefully I’ll find some way to collaborate in person with people about technical projects for the long haul. But I don’t know how many more videoconferences I can take. 5.5 hours of them today. Anything to make it stop.
  - Buttons840 5y ago
    Just to be clear, I don't think it's always unfair for companies to require employees to "show up". I only think it is unfair if the only reason they are doing so is to satisfy the personal social needs of employees, because they are putting the personal needs of some employees above the personal needs of other employees.
    - paulcole 5y ago
      > because they are putting the personal needs of some employees above the personal needs of other employees. If a company stays remote because you do not personally need social interaction at the office, what has just happened? Your personal needs have been put above the personal needs of other employees.
      - arubania2 5y ago
        I don’t think the parent was suggesting that companies stay remote _because_ the employees don’t need interaction. (IMO companies stay this way because it’s simply cheaper and the hiring pool is bigger, but that’s not important in this discussion) It just happens to benefit those whose prefer to stay at home.
MaknMoreGtnLess 5y ago
> We don’t have to be best friends, but yes, showing up is part of the “teammate” package. You don’t get to withdraw that part and still demand all the same things from me. … but they arn't. The person who has meaningful and deep relationships outside work isn't demanding all the same things from you. Most work are in dense cities and cities are inherently expensive. For the commute to be meaningful, everyone in your team has to be within a short distance of these dense cities. The “teammate” package you propose is pretty expensive all things considered. You might not realize nor care about the expense but the teammates might. In the end, the company cares about productive output. Mercenary or not, companies that have the most productive output that makes the customers happy are going to win. My money are on companies that go remote, keep costs down and pass on those savings internally (employees) and externally (customers). My money is not on companies that are forced to hire people within driving distance of some arbitrary office.