4 ms·

Even more shocking then that they are buying massive amounts of oil from Russia, thereby filling Putin’s pockets, no?

nyokodo 5y ago
The US is technically energy independent thanks to shale oil but, unless my knowledge is out of date, the shale business is only dabbled in by the big oil companies that own the vast majority of the big refineries in the US. Shale oil is dominated by smaller more numerous companies, it can scale up and down lightning fast by oil extraction standards, and it needs much less refining than most other sources of oil so the big oil companies import oil from all over to employ the refineries and due to their international entanglements. So there is the strange import export dynamic because there are two camps with broadly different incentives and a really complicated market.
- tmalsburg2 5y ago
  That’s interesting but it doesn’t answer the question why it’s okay for the US to do business with Putin but not for the EU.
  - mannerheim 5y ago
    If the US sanctions Russian oil, gas prices in America go up slightly, and the difference will be made up by sourcing from other countries or scaling up more shale drilling. Politically speaking, it is something American politicians will be able to risk more than German politicians can risk shutting down something like NS2, since without it and NS (which passes through Ukraine), gas cannot reach Germany, which is why Germany has vehemently opposed sanctions on NS2. Germany hasn't even bothered constructing any LNG terminals[0], something which Poland and Lithuania specifically did in fear of Russian aggression. Yes, there aren't American sanctions on Russian gas/oil yet, but that's something that's entirely able to change. [0]: 'Plans for construction of first German LNG terminal plagued by delays and uncertainty' https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/plans-construction-first-german-lng-terminal-plagued-delays-and-uncertainty https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/plans-construction-firs...
    - tmalsburg2 5y ago
      You write that without NS and NS2 gas cannot reach Germany. This is incorrect. Only about third of German gas imports are from Russia. 31% are from Norway, 22% from the Netherlands, and the rest from other sources. Gas from Norway and the Netherlands does not enter through either NS or NS2.
      - mannerheim 5y ago
        Perhaps, but the real question is how easily can Germany make up that difference. From the way German politicians have reacted over the past years on matters pertaining to Russian gas, the implication seems to be that there's a genuine fear that there will either be gas shortages or severe price hikes.
    - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
      We just use the ones in Belgium and the Netherlands. (Zeebrugge/Rotterdam) HONK, HONK, PDF-warning! https://www.gie.eu/publications/maps/gie-lng-map/ https://www.gie.eu/publications/maps/gie-lng-map/ What do I see? Pipeline to me! Whee! Singing voice: "So connected, totally unexpected..." kthxbaiii
  - nyokodo 5y ago
    > why it’s okay for the US to do business with Putin but not for the EU. I was attempting to answer why the US imports Russian oil at all given we have production capacity to meet our needs. The wisdom and morality of doing business with Putin is another matter.

The US is technically energy independent thanks to shale oil but, unless my knowledge is out of date, the shale business is only dabbled in by the big oil companies that own the vast majority of the big refineries in the US. Shale oil is dominated by smaller more numerous companies, it can scale up and down lightning fast by oil extraction standards, and it needs much less refining than most other sources of oil so the big oil companies import oil from all over to employ the refineries and due to their international entanglements. So there is the strange import export dynamic because there are two camps with broadly different incentives and a really complicated market.

tmalsburg2 5y ago
That’s interesting but it doesn’t answer the question why it’s okay for the US to do business with Putin but not for the EU.
- mannerheim 5y ago
  If the US sanctions Russian oil, gas prices in America go up slightly, and the difference will be made up by sourcing from other countries or scaling up more shale drilling. Politically speaking, it is something American politicians will be able to risk more than German politicians can risk shutting down something like NS2, since without it and NS (which passes through Ukraine), gas cannot reach Germany, which is why Germany has vehemently opposed sanctions on NS2. Germany hasn't even bothered constructing any LNG terminals[0], something which Poland and Lithuania specifically did in fear of Russian aggression. Yes, there aren't American sanctions on Russian gas/oil yet, but that's something that's entirely able to change. [0]: 'Plans for construction of first German LNG terminal plagued by delays and uncertainty' https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/plans-construction-first-german-lng-terminal-plagued-delays-and-uncertainty https://www.cleanenergywire.org/news/plans-construction-firs...
  - tmalsburg2 5y ago
    You write that without NS and NS2 gas cannot reach Germany. This is incorrect. Only about third of German gas imports are from Russia. 31% are from Norway, 22% from the Netherlands, and the rest from other sources. Gas from Norway and the Netherlands does not enter through either NS or NS2.
    - mannerheim 5y ago
      Perhaps, but the real question is how easily can Germany make up that difference. From the way German politicians have reacted over the past years on matters pertaining to Russian gas, the implication seems to be that there's a genuine fear that there will either be gas shortages or severe price hikes.
  - LargoLasskhyfv 5y ago
    We just use the ones in Belgium and the Netherlands. (Zeebrugge/Rotterdam) HONK, HONK, PDF-warning! https://www.gie.eu/publications/maps/gie-lng-map/ https://www.gie.eu/publications/maps/gie-lng-map/ What do I see? Pipeline to me! Whee! Singing voice: "So connected, totally unexpected..." kthxbaiii
- nyokodo 5y ago
  > why it’s okay for the US to do business with Putin but not for the EU. I was attempting to answer why the US imports Russian oil at all given we have production capacity to meet our needs. The wisdom and morality of doing business with Putin is another matter.