5 ms·

> Your instructor was right not to give you any points, for your answer was wrong, as he demonstrated using Gauss’ law. You should, in science, believe logic an

> Your instructor was right not to give you any points, for your answer was wrong, as he demonstrated using Gauss’ law. You should, in science, believe logic and arguments, carefully drawn, and not authorities. You also read the book correctly and understood it. I made a mistake, so the book is wrong. I probably was thinking of a grounded conducting sphere, or else of the fact that moving the charges around in different places inside does not affect things on the outside. I am not sure how I did it, but I goofed. And you goofed, too, for believing me. I've heard of "non-apologies," which are sneaky ways of sounding like one is taking responsibility and apologizing without actually apologizing or taking responsibility. But this is the opposite-- Fenyman takes zero responsibility for having led the student astray, and in fact chastises the reader for appealing to his own authority. At the same time, he gives evidence for why he should not be trusted as an authority-- he goofed and doesn't even know why! It's like a variation of an old one-liner comedy insult, something like: "I got news for you, we could both do better!" Anyhow, I like it.

b215826 5y ago
> he gives evidence for why he should not be trusted as an authority-- he goofed and doesn't even know why! Your comment is very hilarious since Gauss's law is high-school physics. So Feynman would have clearly known how he goofed up.
- andrewl 5y ago
  The article quotes Feynman’s letter as saying “I am not sure how I did it, but I goofed.” What he meant is that he doesn’t know how he made such a simple error, not that he doesn’t know what the error was. Like if I wrote in an article or book chapter that 2 + 3 = 7. I’d know what the error was when it was pointed out to me. But I wouldn’t be able to imagine how in the world I made such an elementary goof.
  - b215826 5y ago
    > Like if I wrote in an article or book chapter that 2 + 3 = 7. I’d know what the error was when it was pointed out to me. But I wouldn’t be able to imagine how in the world I made such an elementary goof. And why would that make you less of an authority? I was replying to a comment that suggested that Feynman ought to be not trusted as an authority because he goofed. Please try to follow the discussion in the thread.
lisper 5y ago
But all this begs the question. Why should we believe Gauss's law? No one has the resources to verify the whole of science through first-hand experience so at some point you have no choice but to trust someone.
- abdullahkhalids 5y ago
  A student would be optimally correct in trusting authority as far as believing the axioms of the electromagnetic theory goes. However, as ones builds more and more theorems and results based on those axioms, the student should stop believing in authority and start verifying that all claimed results are consistent with the axioms.
  - pdonis 5y ago
    > A student would be optimally correct in trusting authority as far as believing the axioms of the electromagnetic theory goes. You don't have to "believe" the axioms. You can test them, by testing whether the experimental predictions derived from them are confirmed or not.
- pdonis 5y ago
  > Why should we believe Gauss's law? Because experiments show that it's correct. > No one has the resources to verify the whole of science through first-hand experience Courses in science commonly include actual experiments, either done by the professor while students watch, or done by the students themselves in labs, precisely to give the students first-hand experience in the scientific phenomena being studied in the course. > at some point you have no choice but to trust someone You may have to trust other people for first-hand observations of things you didn't observe yourself. But that isn't what's involved here. Here the student had a theoretical law whose consequences she was perfectly capable of working out for herself. She did not have to trust anyone for that. In this particular case, the student even saw the problem with Feynman's statement: her letter says, in reference to the statement in Feynman's book that turned out to be wrong: "This was confusing, as it seemed to contradict all your previous statements." So why did she base her exam answer on the statement she found "confusing"? She should have thought it through for herself.
hirundo 5y ago
Nullius in verba.
pdonis 5y ago
> Fenyman takes zero responsibility for having led the student astray Sure he did. He said he goofed. > and in fact chastises the reader for appealing to his own authority And he's right. In science, there is no such thing as appeal to authority. If the student thought her answer was right, she should have produced an argument for why it was right--and of course she couldn't because her answer was wrong. She should not have appealed to an authority.
robbiep 5y ago
How is it possible that you quoted the bit where he accepts responsibility for screwing up (‘I goofed’) and you say the opposite?

b215826 5y ago

> he gives evidence for why he should not be trusted as an authority-- he goofed and doesn't even know why! Your comment is very hilarious since Gauss's law is high-school physics. So Feynman would have clearly known how he goofed up.

andrewl 5y ago
The article quotes Feynman’s letter as saying “I am not sure how I did it, but I goofed.” What he meant is that he doesn’t know how he made such a simple error, not that he doesn’t know what the error was. Like if I wrote in an article or book chapter that 2 + 3 = 7. I’d know what the error was when it was pointed out to me. But I wouldn’t be able to imagine how in the world I made such an elementary goof.
- b215826 5y ago
  > Like if I wrote in an article or book chapter that 2 + 3 = 7. I’d know what the error was when it was pointed out to me. But I wouldn’t be able to imagine how in the world I made such an elementary goof. And why would that make you less of an authority? I was replying to a comment that suggested that Feynman ought to be not trusted as an authority because he goofed. Please try to follow the discussion in the thread.

lisper 5y ago

But all this begs the question. Why should we believe Gauss's law? No one has the resources to verify the whole of science through first-hand experience so at some point you have no choice but to trust someone.

abdullahkhalids 5y ago
A student would be optimally correct in trusting authority as far as believing the axioms of the electromagnetic theory goes. However, as ones builds more and more theorems and results based on those axioms, the student should stop believing in authority and start verifying that all claimed results are consistent with the axioms.
- pdonis 5y ago
  > A student would be optimally correct in trusting authority as far as believing the axioms of the electromagnetic theory goes. You don't have to "believe" the axioms. You can test them, by testing whether the experimental predictions derived from them are confirmed or not.
pdonis 5y ago
> Why should we believe Gauss's law? Because experiments show that it's correct. > No one has the resources to verify the whole of science through first-hand experience Courses in science commonly include actual experiments, either done by the professor while students watch, or done by the students themselves in labs, precisely to give the students first-hand experience in the scientific phenomena being studied in the course. > at some point you have no choice but to trust someone You may have to trust other people for first-hand observations of things you didn't observe yourself. But that isn't what's involved here. Here the student had a theoretical law whose consequences she was perfectly capable of working out for herself. She did not have to trust anyone for that. In this particular case, the student even saw the problem with Feynman's statement: her letter says, in reference to the statement in Feynman's book that turned out to be wrong: "This was confusing, as it seemed to contradict all your previous statements." So why did she base her exam answer on the statement she found "confusing"? She should have thought it through for herself.

hirundo 5y ago

Nullius in verba.

pdonis 5y ago

> Fenyman takes zero responsibility for having led the student astray Sure he did. He said he goofed. > and in fact chastises the reader for appealing to his own authority And he's right. In science, there is no such thing as appeal to authority. If the student thought her answer was right, she should have produced an argument for why it was right--and of course she couldn't because her answer was wrong. She should not have appealed to an authority.

robbiep 5y ago

How is it possible that you quoted the bit where he accepts responsibility for screwing up (‘I goofed’) and you say the opposite?