5 ms·

Notably, the War Measures Act - which is the original act that was rebranded as the Emergencies Act in 1988 - has only ever been put into effect 3 times in hist

by lowkey 5y ago

Notably, the War Measures Act - which is the original act that was rebranded as the Emergencies Act in 1988 - has only ever been put into effect 3 times in history. 1. WWI 2. WWII 3. FLQ Crisis - an incident that included the kidnapping of federal ministers by a terrorist organization By contrast, this protest has been incredibly peaceful when compared to other similar protests or occupations. There is a debate happening in parliament right now on whether or not to extend the Emergency powers now that the government has successfully cleared the protestors and taken back control of downtown Ottawa. I personally don't believe this incident warranted the suspension of civil liberties. It isn't clear to me that the government did what they could to apply the existing laws on the books. If anything the biggest issue was that the Ottawa police appeared reluctant to enforce existing laws on the protestors. That is a different issue and does not justify the imposition of the Emergency act.

Comevius 5y ago
This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium. Holding critical infrastructure hostage, threatening the government and harassing people is not peaceful. Invoking the Emergencies Act after 3 weeks was warranted after the police failed doing it's job. The government did not have a clear picture or control over the situation. A foreign organization could have used it to supply these people, which is what happened. This was a big hole in Canada's national security.
- lowkey 5y ago
  > This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium. Assuming you are referring to the January 6th insurrection incident, I don't think the two are comparable. What happened in Canada could fairly be described as an occupation and would therefore be most similar to the Occupy Wall Street movement. Notably the Occupy movement, despite being equally frustrating for the local and national government as well as the civilian population, was allowed to go on for close to 2 years. I don't claim that Canada should have allowed this protest/occupation to go on for that long, but I think it is clear that had the Ottawa police had the will to take action, the existing laws were sufficient to put an end to any illegal activity. Peaceful protest, not occupation, is lawful under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. So my hypothesis is that the Canadian Government implemented the Emergency Measures act in order to suspend the Charter so they could suppress an otherwise lawful activity.
  - joshuamorton 5y ago
    > Notably the Occupy movement, despite being equally frustrating for the local and national government as well as the civilian population, was allowed to go on for close to 2 years. Politically this is probably true, but ows never as far as I recall blocked main roads, and certainly not for extended periods. Whatever you think the legitimacy of that tactic is, it's not the same. And fwiw the ottowa police claimed that they didn't have the resources: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/16/ottawa-protests-police-face-pressure-over-response https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/16/ottawa-protest..., though I too question that claim.
    - pyuser583 5y ago
      This is not true. The occupy movement did block main roads. When they were doing their thing, my drive to work (and back) tripled. BLM did the same. Police need to be able to stop those who break the law, while simultaneously protecting those who are merely protesting. Even if they’re part of the same crowd.
      - bryanlarsen 5y ago
        The truckers were allowed to block the roads after promising to only do so for 3 days.
        pyuser583 5y ago
        So the police weren’t doing their jobs. This is especially insane because you can no longer distinguish between “protestors legally protesting” and “protestors illegally blocking critical infrastructure.” That is very much the government being stupid.
      - joshuamorton 5y ago
        I can find some examples of protestors blocking main roads and getting arrested the same day (https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-more-than-700-arrested-after-protesters-block-traffic-on-brooklyn-bridge-during-rush-hour https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/occupy-wall-s... among others), but no news or reporting on continuous multi-day blockages (probably because, as far as I can tell, there are tons of examples of them being swiftly arrested, same with BLM). But not, like literally making roads impassable at all hours for days (https://www.dw.com/en/canada-court-orders-protesting-truckers-to-stop-honking/a-60693576 https://www.dw.com/en/canada-court-orders-protesting-trucker...). (and there's something to be said for "the police shouldn't be able to put down a large scale protest of involving thousands of people and vehicles. Perhaps if the police force is powerful enough to do that, it's too strong?)
- pyuser583 5y ago
  > Invoking the Emergencies Act after 3 weeks was warranted after the police failed doing it's job. This is what I don’t get. The Canadian police had the power to stop the protestors who crossed the line from protest to riot. But they didn’t. I don’t understand why. Why did they allow the ambassador bridge to be shut down so long? They had the power to stop it. They just chose not to.
  - lowkey 5y ago
    I don't think anyone has claimed that the protest turned into a riot. Only that the protest turned into an occupation and/or a blockade that caused economic damage and negatively impacted the residents of Ottawa. These were remarkably peaceful protests, for the most part, by both the protesters and the police.
    - pyuser583 5y ago
      Sorry, riot isn’t the right word. Nobody was being hurt, and that’s very important. However it’s not acceptable to shut down public roadways.
  - slowmovintarget 5y ago
    Had the police simply cleared up the problem using existing laws a good crisis would have gone to waste.

by lowkey 5y ago

Comevius 5y ago

This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium. Holding critical infrastructure hostage, threatening the government and harassing people is not peaceful. Invoking the Emergencies Act after 3 weeks was warranted after the police failed doing it's job. The government did not have a clear picture or control over the situation. A foreign organization could have used it to supply these people, which is what happened. This was a big hole in Canada's national security.

lowkey 5y ago
> This was one year after similar group attacked the American Capitolium. Assuming you are referring to the January 6th insurrection incident, I don't think the two are comparable. What happened in Canada could fairly be described as an occupation and would therefore be most similar to the Occupy Wall Street movement. Notably the Occupy movement, despite being equally frustrating for the local and national government as well as the civilian population, was allowed to go on for close to 2 years. I don't claim that Canada should have allowed this protest/occupation to go on for that long, but I think it is clear that had the Ottawa police had the will to take action, the existing laws were sufficient to put an end to any illegal activity. Peaceful protest, not occupation, is lawful under the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. So my hypothesis is that the Canadian Government implemented the Emergency Measures act in order to suspend the Charter so they could suppress an otherwise lawful activity.
- joshuamorton 5y ago
  > Notably the Occupy movement, despite being equally frustrating for the local and national government as well as the civilian population, was allowed to go on for close to 2 years. Politically this is probably true, but ows never as far as I recall blocked main roads, and certainly not for extended periods. Whatever you think the legitimacy of that tactic is, it's not the same. And fwiw the ottowa police claimed that they didn't have the resources: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/16/ottawa-protests-police-face-pressure-over-response https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/16/ottawa-protest..., though I too question that claim.
  - pyuser583 5y ago
    This is not true. The occupy movement did block main roads. When they were doing their thing, my drive to work (and back) tripled. BLM did the same. Police need to be able to stop those who break the law, while simultaneously protecting those who are merely protesting. Even if they’re part of the same crowd.
    - bryanlarsen 5y ago
      The truckers were allowed to block the roads after promising to only do so for 3 days.
      - pyuser583 5y ago
        So the police weren’t doing their jobs. This is especially insane because you can no longer distinguish between “protestors legally protesting” and “protestors illegally blocking critical infrastructure.” That is very much the government being stupid.
    - joshuamorton 5y ago
      I can find some examples of protestors blocking main roads and getting arrested the same day (https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/occupy-wall-street-more-than-700-arrested-after-protesters-block-traffic-on-brooklyn-bridge-during-rush-hour https://abcnews.go.com/blogs/headlines/2011/10/occupy-wall-s... among others), but no news or reporting on continuous multi-day blockages (probably because, as far as I can tell, there are tons of examples of them being swiftly arrested, same with BLM). But not, like literally making roads impassable at all hours for days (https://www.dw.com/en/canada-court-orders-protesting-truckers-to-stop-honking/a-60693576 https://www.dw.com/en/canada-court-orders-protesting-trucker...). (and there's something to be said for "the police shouldn't be able to put down a large scale protest of involving thousands of people and vehicles. Perhaps if the police force is powerful enough to do that, it's too strong?)
pyuser583 5y ago
> Invoking the Emergencies Act after 3 weeks was warranted after the police failed doing it's job. This is what I don’t get. The Canadian police had the power to stop the protestors who crossed the line from protest to riot. But they didn’t. I don’t understand why. Why did they allow the ambassador bridge to be shut down so long? They had the power to stop it. They just chose not to.
- lowkey 5y ago
  I don't think anyone has claimed that the protest turned into a riot. Only that the protest turned into an occupation and/or a blockade that caused economic damage and negatively impacted the residents of Ottawa. These were remarkably peaceful protests, for the most part, by both the protesters and the police.
  - pyuser583 5y ago
    Sorry, riot isn’t the right word. Nobody was being hurt, and that’s very important. However it’s not acceptable to shut down public roadways.
- slowmovintarget 5y ago
  Had the police simply cleared up the problem using existing laws a good crisis would have gone to waste.