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I’m all for encouraging more societal support for ethical non-monogamy, but calling monogamy immoral is really an inflammatory way of framing things. Seems unl

I’m all for encouraging more societal support for ethical non-monogamy, but calling monogamy immoral is really an inflammatory way of framing things. Seems unlikely to win many people over.

PaulHoule 5y ago
I'm not saying "monogamy" is immoral but that "serial monogamy" as it is often practiced is. That is, I have seen so many people find a new person really exciting, something they could get over if they could experience having an exciting time with that person without having to break up their relationships to do it. (Alternately "unrealistic" might be another adjective to use: people really do get bored, they really do desire excitement. There is nothing wrong with pursuing passion because you are bored but almost all the time when you do this it is going to burn out... So trading a boring stable relationship for excitement is going to almost always hurt people, have a harmful effect, and thus be "wrong" or "immoral" in my eyes.)
- Kye 5y ago
  edit: nope
  - wintermutestwin 5y ago
    I don't find the word "failed" to be helpful at all. I was married for 15 years. We divorced. I do not look back on that relationship and consider it "failed." It lasted for 15 years, most of them were great and we accomplished a lot of incredible things through our partnership. Both of us have moved on to new relationships and we are still friends. I consider that relationship to be highly successful. Of course, my experience took a great deal of emotional maturity, which was developed through a series of monogamous relationships. Serial monogamy gets a bad rap IMO. Luckily I have enough emotional maturity to know that I don't have enough emotional maturity to pull of poly. In my reasonably broad experience with poly folks, the vast majority don't either.
    - dleslie 5y ago
      Indeed! It's like a good TV series: knowing when something should end isn't always admitting defeat, it can be acknowledging that a good thing has run its course to its successful completion. Too many things are maintained well past the point of a positive possible ending.
- antiterra 5y ago
  There’s nothing in a non-monogamous relationship that prevents feelings of rejection or loss when a partner loses interest. It’s a very small comfort to have other partners when one you care deeply about adds distance.
  - Kye 5y ago
    edit: people were misreading and projecting and I don't care to engage with it or accumulate more.
    - antiterra 5y ago
      I’ve been in a non-monogamous relationship for an extremely long time, and ‘there are tools’ or ‘read this book’ are both very simplistic attitudes about the challenges.
    - throwamon 5y ago
      Isn't part of the issue that you need such a "toolbox"? It not only requires the usual maturity and mental preparation to deal with other people, there's also an entire set of extra complications and "conventions" (?) you (and any of your partners) need to get used to.
      - PaulHoule 5y ago
        Sometimes things can come naturally. In my poly prehistory I once wanted badly to go on a date with a cute girl who worked in an office next to mine, told my wife, and she said I should go for it. Other times things don't go naturally and then is why we need "toolboxes" for relationships, no matter what kind. For me I have been exploring my emotions and my ability to transmit emotions to other people. I plant feelings like seeds, kindle them into a roaring fire, can compress them into a ball and they hit someone like a lightning bolt. It's a power that brings responsibility because you can just easily if not more easily hurt somebody that way as opposed to draw them in. There is a structure to falling in love and it's better to develop it than to be pushed around by randomness. Not a lot of people talk about it for a few reasons: (1) The gap between desperation and being overcommitted is small (2) Love is a dangerous game. Pickup isn't because people in casual situations wall off their feelings but no matter how much you expel hostility, sadistic tendencies and are sensitive to avoid accidental slights and interruptions of mirroring it's inevitable that you're going to hurt anyone who becomes attached to you because you're either going to break up or "death will do you part"
thoms_a 5y ago
I'm extremely curious to learn about both the implicit moral frameworks referenced in these comments. I genuinely would like to see an explicit listing of axioms upon which these moralities are based.
- PaulHoule 5y ago
  For me: Loyalty. Making and keeping commitments. Getting my needs met so I can take care of the people around me. Making people happy.

I’m all for encouraging more societal support for ethical non-monogamy, but calling monogamy immoral is really an inflammatory way of framing things. Seems unlikely to win many people over.

PaulHoule 5y ago

I'm not saying "monogamy" is immoral but that "serial monogamy" as it is often practiced is. That is, I have seen so many people find a new person really exciting, something they could get over if they could experience having an exciting time with that person without having to break up their relationships to do it. (Alternately "unrealistic" might be another adjective to use: people really do get bored, they really do desire excitement. There is nothing wrong with pursuing passion because you are bored but almost all the time when you do this it is going to burn out... So trading a boring stable relationship for excitement is going to almost always hurt people, have a harmful effect, and thus be "wrong" or "immoral" in my eyes.)

Kye 5y ago
edit: nope
- wintermutestwin 5y ago
  I don't find the word "failed" to be helpful at all. I was married for 15 years. We divorced. I do not look back on that relationship and consider it "failed." It lasted for 15 years, most of them were great and we accomplished a lot of incredible things through our partnership. Both of us have moved on to new relationships and we are still friends. I consider that relationship to be highly successful. Of course, my experience took a great deal of emotional maturity, which was developed through a series of monogamous relationships. Serial monogamy gets a bad rap IMO. Luckily I have enough emotional maturity to know that I don't have enough emotional maturity to pull of poly. In my reasonably broad experience with poly folks, the vast majority don't either.
  - dleslie 5y ago
    Indeed! It's like a good TV series: knowing when something should end isn't always admitting defeat, it can be acknowledging that a good thing has run its course to its successful completion. Too many things are maintained well past the point of a positive possible ending.
antiterra 5y ago
There’s nothing in a non-monogamous relationship that prevents feelings of rejection or loss when a partner loses interest. It’s a very small comfort to have other partners when one you care deeply about adds distance.
- Kye 5y ago
  edit: people were misreading and projecting and I don't care to engage with it or accumulate more.
  - antiterra 5y ago
    I’ve been in a non-monogamous relationship for an extremely long time, and ‘there are tools’ or ‘read this book’ are both very simplistic attitudes about the challenges.
  - throwamon 5y ago
    Isn't part of the issue that you need such a "toolbox"? It not only requires the usual maturity and mental preparation to deal with other people, there's also an entire set of extra complications and "conventions" (?) you (and any of your partners) need to get used to.
    - PaulHoule 5y ago
      Sometimes things can come naturally. In my poly prehistory I once wanted badly to go on a date with a cute girl who worked in an office next to mine, told my wife, and she said I should go for it. Other times things don't go naturally and then is why we need "toolboxes" for relationships, no matter what kind. For me I have been exploring my emotions and my ability to transmit emotions to other people. I plant feelings like seeds, kindle them into a roaring fire, can compress them into a ball and they hit someone like a lightning bolt. It's a power that brings responsibility because you can just easily if not more easily hurt somebody that way as opposed to draw them in. There is a structure to falling in love and it's better to develop it than to be pushed around by randomness. Not a lot of people talk about it for a few reasons: (1) The gap between desperation and being overcommitted is small (2) Love is a dangerous game. Pickup isn't because people in casual situations wall off their feelings but no matter how much you expel hostility, sadistic tendencies and are sensitive to avoid accidental slights and interruptions of mirroring it's inevitable that you're going to hurt anyone who becomes attached to you because you're either going to break up or "death will do you part"

thoms_a 5y ago

I'm extremely curious to learn about both the implicit moral frameworks referenced in these comments. I genuinely would like to see an explicit listing of axioms upon which these moralities are based.

PaulHoule 5y ago
For me: Loyalty. Making and keeping commitments. Getting my needs met so I can take care of the people around me. Making people happy.