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Google could have updated the Pixel 3 until Android 13, it just didn't want to

173 points by sorenjan 5y ago

larodi 5y ago
It is very sad that no alternative mobile OS is *BSD based.
sorenjan 5y ago
I used the title ("Google could have updated the Pixel 3 until Android 13, it just didn't want to") from the source article, but it really applies to all Android phone manufacturers. The key point in the article is this: > Qualcomm has confirmed to me that it is still able to deliver Qualcomm-specific software updates for the Snapdragon 845, and while kernel-level support will be an issue for the chipset beginning with Android 13, things right now under Android 12 are just fine. Snapdragon 845 is what powers most high end Android phones from 2018, and I don't know of any manufacturer that still delivers updates to those phones even though they're still perfectly usable. It is often reported that updates beyond a couple of years isn't possible because of Qualcomm, but they don't seem to be the issue in this case.
- notreallyserio 5y ago
  It does indeed apply to all vendors. However, it is especially embarrassing for Google to do so poorly with their own line of phones.
- zucker42 5y ago
  I don't think those software updates would come free. I think Qualcomm deserves half the blame here because they produce such horribly locked down products.
  - sorenjan 5y ago
    Wasn't Treble supposed to decouple Android version updates from hardware drivers? It seems as if Google (and other manufacturers, but it's Google's OS) just like to point fingers and blame others to save some money.
- addaon 5y ago
  I don't know anything about phone vendor relationships with Qualcomm, but "able to deliver" does not necessarily mean "able to charge a reasonable price." If "able to deliver" means "has competent engineers familiar with the product, and are willing to put those engineers on the project in exchange for full costs plus profits" rather than "can e-mail you an up-to-date repository", it can be prohibitive. Especially with as few as ten million Pixel 3s sold [1], and a half-life of less than two years for cell phone usage, it's going to be hard to justify even a single engineer-year so late in the game for such a small audience. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/pixel-3-by-the-numbers-googles-flagship-phone-was-a-flop https://www.zdnet.com/article/pixel-3-by-the-numbers-googles...
  - sorenjan 5y ago
    The half-life of less than two years is a chicken and egg problem. People buy new phones because their old ones doesn't get updates, and phone manufacturers doesn't update old phones because too few people use them. I don't understand how it could take a full time engineer one year to produce a software update for an already fully functional phone. Even if that was the case, $500k/year for ten million devices is 5 cents per phone. If companies can't be bothered to spend 5 cents to keep a fully functional phone from becoming e-waste for another year I think regulation is in order. For reference four of Google's execs recently got huge bonuses ($2M) for contributions to "Google’s performance against social and environmental goals for 2022." https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/4/22867419/google-execs-million-salaries-raise-sec https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/4/22867419/google-execs-mill...
retrac 5y ago
Is this surprising to anyone? My present phone is a Motorola G5 Plus, low-mid range model released in early 2017 which I bought new at the time unlocked for under $200 USD. Motorola stopped updating it with Android 8.1, but it runs the latest version of LineageOS based on Android 11 just fine. One of my tablets is an Amazon device which stopped getting updates to Amazon's proprietary Android 5-based OS. But it runs Android 10-derived LineageOS just fine. A relative was just going to throw it out because the software was out of date. The amount of e-waste produced due to this practice must be scandalous. Purely in terms of specs and performance, most devices since about 2017 can run the latest software. Manufacturers rarely support the device for more than a year or two, though. This pattern of behaviour goes all the way back to the very first Android device. The HTC Dream was dropped after Android 1.6 but it can run later versions.
- jrib 5y ago
  I ordered a new phone to replace my pixel 1 from 2016 this past week. It was running fine with LineageOS but AT&T is forcing it off their network :/
  - celsoazevedo 5y ago
    I've read a few comments over at r/lineageos saying that phones still work. They're sending the message to anyone without a phone "approved" by them.
- aaronbrethorst 5y ago
  Apple's still supporting devices released in September 2015.
  - p_l 5y ago
    Apple also fully controls all the stack, unlike all of the other vendors.
    - aaronbrethorst 5y ago
dzqhz 5y ago
In the meantime, the iPhone 6s, released more than three years before the Pixel 3, is still receiving updates. If you buy an Android you already know the deal. It's not like they are stabbing you in the back.
- cageface 5y ago
  It's also true that the user experience of a 6s running iOS 15 isn't going to be very good.
  - null_object 5y ago
    > It's also true that the user experience of a 6s running iOS 15 isn't going to be very good. Are you basing this on real experience or just fishing for HN anti-Apple upvotes? Just asking because my kid is using an iPhone 6s with iOS15 and really experiencing absolutely no problems whatsoever.
    - whizzter 5y ago
      Buying an iPhone 6s was an excellent if lucky choice, the luck was that the original SE was based on it so the support guarantees of the SE carries the 6s with it. With Apples usual 5 years there'll probably be another 1.5 years of support since the orignal SE was discontinued. (After that I suspect that a bunch of other devices will be discontinued quickly again)
    - evilduck 5y ago
      Definitely the latter. I'm in the same boat, my kid is now the third owner of a handed down 6S and it still does everything without being slow or lacking app support. The features it is missing are mostly neural engine related and are conveniences not vital functionality. I could 100% use that phone as a daily driver and not be frustrated if I swapped in a new battery.
    - cageface 5y ago
      I’ve got more than enough karma and a secure enough ego to have no need to go fishing for votes on HN thanks. Don’t the site guidelines say something about being charitable in your interpretations of other people’s comments? Anyway I have used a 6s on recent versions of iOS. It works but don’t kid yourself if you think the experience in any way compares to using a recent device.
pmontra 5y ago
I go with 200 - 250 Euro phones. The oldest surviving one is from 2016, stuck at Android 8. I use it as backup and as GPS tracker / navigator on my bicycle because it's small. The recent one is from 2019, Android 11 and still getting security updates. I don't know for how long it's going to go, but 70 Euros per year / 6 per month (going down) is OK. Of course I'd prefer to see it going on forever. My laptop is from 2014 and sooner or later it will die either because of lack of spare parts or because NVIDIA won't release a driver compatible with my card AND newer Linux kernels. Who knows if I'll be able to use Noveau by then.
AndrewDucker 5y ago
Wasn't the whole point of Project Treble to abstract the OS from the low level using a HAL so that most of Android could be updated even if the low-level was stuck?
- prettyStandard 5y ago
  Yeah... Maybe that's why another person in this thread had such an easy time flashing a 3rd party OS using the WebUSB installer and not even opening the terminal. +1 points for Google for cool stuff like Project Treble (gotta keep techies on board) -99 points for Google for abandoning Flagship devices for 99% of users that techies might have sold to family and friends.
  - AndrewDucker 5y ago
    If it's so easy, then I don't understand why they don't just have a high level OS version that they can make available across all of their devices? How much overhead can there really be? (I really would like to understand better.)
    - phh 5y ago
      I actually do just that: https://twitter.com/phhusson/status/1447824974396497924 https://twitter.com/phhusson/status/1447824974396497924 My oldest supported device is Pixel 1 (released in 2016): https://twitter.com/phhusson/status/1454155975515152387 https://twitter.com/phhusson/status/1454155975515152387 I'm pretty much alone, and do it in my spare time. So, it's fairly easy to do. Actually, Google do provide some GSIs: https://developer.android.com/topic/generic-system-image/releases https://developer.android.com/topic/generic-system-image/rel... But they are unusable as daily driver on the majority of devices. Many (I'd say most) devices simply won't boot, most devices would have no in-call audio, there wouldn't be VoLTE on any device, backlight control would be broken on many devices, etc. etc. Google doesn't do it because they have no incentive in doing that.
- phh 5y ago
  Now HALs are indeed properly abstracted. What does Google do with that? They actually use that, to deprecate devices FASTER than ever. How? Well, now that the HALs are perfectly formalized, they can say "Okay, a device launched with Android 8, used audio HAL 2.0, while Android 9-launched devices use audio HAL 3.0. We support Android for 3 upgrades, so for Android 12, we can REMOVE the whole code supporting Audio HAL 2.0". While before that, Google couldn't really know what code to remove or not, because they couldn't really know what was used. So yes, Project Treble, in current Google's implementation, Project Treble turns out to obsolete things even faster than before, and in Google's new Treblish certification plans, I see no place for Fairphones or nVidia Shield with real long-term support. So, overall, IMO, Project Treble net result is pretty close to 0 (it does have some positive aspects, not just the negatives I just said). My hope is that some company would appear to lack this gap. Because thanks to Treble, it is actually possible to make reasonable long-term support, by making the code that Google removed to bring back support.
jaredandrews 5y ago
I flashed my Pixel 3 to the CalyxOS [0] with Android 12 on Friday. It has been at least 6 years since I have put a custom OS on an Android phone... I was shocked at how smooth the process was using the provided installer. Took less than 30 minutes. This particular phone, I use solely for Android dev. Based on my initial experience with CalyxOS, I could definitely see myself switching to it for my daily driver. [0] https://calyxos.org/ https://calyxos.org/
- RMPR 5y ago
  I have a Pixel 3a XL I am seriously considering installing a custom ROM. One question though, how is the camera app? Is it as performant as the one preinstalled?
  - jaredandrews 5y ago
    It's not as good.
- callahad 5y ago
  Same boat. I just flashed GrapheneOS onto my Pixel 3a over the weekend, and the process was stunning compared to the days of CyanogenMod on my Nexus One. Notably, Graphene offers a WebUSB-based installer (https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web), so I was able to completely flash my phone from a browser without ever opening a terminal. Equally amazing and terrifying. (Apparently there's some bad blood between Calyx and Graphene, which is a shame. Both seem solid.)
- fiznool 5y ago
  I guess the main issue here is the lack of Google Play Services, which may mean that you can’t reliably implement certain features or reproduce conditions that your end users will face. Perhaps it doesn’t matter for a dev-only phone, but if the device doubles up as a test device, this may be where a non-Google ROM falls down. I’d be wary of using CalyxOS as a base for a dev phone, for this reason.
  - 5y ago
shantara 5y ago
Google has a support page that lists the planned obsolescence dates for all Pixep phones: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 My Pixel 3a is going to stop receiving security updates this May. It’s still a perfectly good phone despite the increasing slowdowns with every system or Play Service update. I’ve learned my lesson and switched to iPhone as my next main phone, and relegated the Pixel to serve as a backup.
- mnsc 5y ago
  If the kings walled gardens Apple would say that "we will keep this next iPhone secure and working snappily for basic tasks, web/email/utility apps, for a decade with a possibility to replace batteries" I would actually consider taking a stroll in that greenhouse. Until then, no thanks.
  - gotorazor 5y ago
    Ten years is a really long time in tech. And you can pay Apple to replace the battery for you. "we will keep this next iPhone secure and working snappily for basic tasks, web/email/utility apps" --- No Android phone maker can even make this guarantee for more than 2 years.
    - spacehunt 5y ago
      > No Android phone maker can even make this guarantee for more than 2 years. Samsung pledges 4 OS updates, 5 years of patches for 2021 and 2022 flagships https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_pledges_4_os_updates_5_years_of_patches_for_2021_and_2022_flagships-news-53070.php https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_pledges_4_os_updates_5_year...
      - hddherman 5y ago
        That's the issue, only flagships. All the more affordable and mainstream models don't get any meaningful software support. Apple has some horrific practices that I don't agree with when it comes to repairability, but at least it treats its products the same way. The iPhone SE from 2016 still runs the latest iOS version, same for iPhone 7.
CretinDesAlpes 5y ago
This is why we need alternatives to Google and Apple phones/OS, here is a list I have written over the years althought it may not be entirely up to date or completely accurate: * Phone hardware alternatives to mainstream brands * Fairphone 4 [NL] * Librem 5 from Purism [US] * Pinephone from Pine64 [China] * FXTec [UK] * Volla [DE] * Linux-based OS * PostmarketOS - "postmarketOS extends Alpine Linux to run on smartphones and other mobile devices. [See compatible devices: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices] * Mobian * Manjaro ARM * Maemo Leste * Pure OS [US] (purism) * Sailfish OS [FI] * Others - mostly android-based alternatives * Ubuntu Touch "Ubuntu Touch is not based on the "mainline" Linux kernel, but rather on the "downstream" (that is, highly patched) Android kernel that came with it originally, with an abstraction layer, halium, to adapt Android drivers and userspace to Linux systems. " * /e/ foundation [FR] * Lineage OS * GrapheneOS * LuneOS * Nemo Mobile * CalyxOS edit: updated according to comments
- MayeulC 5y ago
  Nit: Pine64.com is china-based (it handles hardware design and production, software is outsourced to the OSS community).
- svilen_dobrev 5y ago
  after some loong wait-and-look-at-trends, i switched to sailfish last year. linux / qt and all. good. Android-app support.. ~ yes. good. If app doesnot work it's mostly because it wants to googleize me.. and fail. i can live with that. Some websites won't open because somewhat old webkit - the hell with them. No native clients for this or that.. meh. i can live with it. it's essentialy like a computer in pocket as it should be. everyday things. ssh and what not if u really want. Not an eye-enabled-wallet as all else has become..
  - AtlasBarfed 5y ago
    Does it have voice recognition for commands? That really is the issue I think Open Source has: they don't have the resources for comprehensive competitive voice recognition interfaces in phone OSes.
farmerstan 5y ago
How on earth are you supposed to show impact and get a promotion if you’re working on maintenance projects?
- ece 5y ago
  By having a longer term outlook and doing things might actually gain you market share in the long term.
- hypertele-Xii 5y ago
  By demonstrating that the product you're maintaining indeed still works?
  - diffeomorphism 5y ago
    > By demonstrating that the product you're maintaining indeed still works? ... The post you are replying to was a rhetorical question because the answer to your question famously is "No, absolutely not".
- shepardrtc 5y ago
  This is a snarky response and could absolutely be worded better, but this is the truth in Google. You only advance if you bring something new to the table. Software isn't maintained because there is no reason for people to do so internally.
- UncleMeat 5y ago
  Believe it or not, the Core Developer organization, which is the most focused on tech debt and maintenance of any of the organizations, has a measurably higher promo rate than the norm at Google. "Can't get promo for tech debt or maintenance" is simply a myth.
CalChris 5y ago
I don't use Android phones but the 2016 iPhone SE is still getting updates. It will probably go legacy this year but 6 years is pretty good support.
0xcafecafe 5y ago
>With these options for updates available, there’s only one conclusion to draw: Google just doesn’t want to keep updating the Pixel 3. That three-year promise has been satisfied, and it's not making more money from Pixel 3 customers. Why go above and beyond? To retain if not grow customers. We are looking for a phone for my wife's mom who has a moto G5 plus. For her user profile (calls, texts and video calls using whatsapp), a moto G5 was perfect at that time. We (pixel users ourselves) are lobbying her to use an iphone especially due to this BS EOL policy by google. She is very careful and can easily use a phone for 5+ years if the device lets her. Only iphone fits the bill as of now.
jeffbee 5y ago
" the phone never feels slow ..." haha lol but seriously. Only a person who never uses iOS can believe this. I have a Pixel 3 and an iPhone SE, by far the worst phone Apple sells, and the difference is like night and day. The Pixel 3 is already a janky, laggy slideshow with Android 12. Android 13 is undoubtedly bloated enough to make the Pixel 3 unusable. I am glad they did not try to cram Android 13 onto this device, because that would have forced me to replace it.
bradfa 5y ago
On the Android side, Samsung Xcover Pro, Fairphone 4, and Google Pixel 6 all promise 5 years of security updates. Apple has a track record of supporting their phones with 5 to 7 years of security updates after launch. Sure, some past phones maybe could have been supported longer, but things ARE getting better. Don't just focus on the negative, embrace the positive things happening in mobile hardware, too.
PufPufPuf 5y ago
I once specifically bought an Android One phone (Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite), in hopes that having a clean Android and the promise of updates for at least two years will prevent this very problem. Sadly, the update to Android 10 was delivered almost a year late and in such a broken state that made the phone practically unusable -- apps were getting killed so fast that you couldn't even login to some apps as opening an in-app browser immediately killed the original app. I have nothing but respect for the XDA community who managed not only to fix the problems, but to update the device to Android 11 and then Android 12 while adding useful features, including a port of Google Camera with all the AI features. So if you care about the software on your phone, I'm afraid that using a custom ROM is the only way.
beeboop 5y ago
I wish they didn't push 12, it completely broke my wife's Pixel 3
- aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
  Install Calyx or Graphene, it's a 10 min procedure front to back.
  - beeboop 5y ago
    it will take her hours to back up her phone via USB C cable since she can't do it on the phone directly, and then again hours more to set her phone up again as it was
yunohn 5y ago
> And, according to everyone I've spoken to, there aren't any good technical reasons for it being left behind. Google just doesn't care. Despite all the reactionary commentary here, this is the only “evidence” mentioned for the headline. The rest of it is opinions and preferences. Why aren’t the alluded-to technical reasons listed or explained?
fileoffset 5y ago
STOP BUYING GOOGLE HARDWARE
- aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
  At least don't buy it new.

173 points by sorenjan 5y ago

It is very sad that no alternative mobile OS is *BSD based.

I used the title ("Google could have updated the Pixel 3 until Android 13, it just didn't want to") from the source article, but it really applies to all Android phone manufacturers. The key point in the article is this: > Qualcomm has confirmed to me that it is still able to deliver Qualcomm-specific software updates for the Snapdragon 845, and while kernel-level support will be an issue for the chipset beginning with Android 13, things right now under Android 12 are just fine. Snapdragon 845 is what powers most high end Android phones from 2018, and I don't know of any manufacturer that still delivers updates to those phones even though they're still perfectly usable. It is often reported that updates beyond a couple of years isn't possible because of Qualcomm, but they don't seem to be the issue in this case.

notreallyserio 5y ago
It does indeed apply to all vendors. However, it is especially embarrassing for Google to do so poorly with their own line of phones.
zucker42 5y ago
I don't think those software updates would come free. I think Qualcomm deserves half the blame here because they produce such horribly locked down products.
- sorenjan 5y ago
  Wasn't Treble supposed to decouple Android version updates from hardware drivers? It seems as if Google (and other manufacturers, but it's Google's OS) just like to point fingers and blame others to save some money.
addaon 5y ago
I don't know anything about phone vendor relationships with Qualcomm, but "able to deliver" does not necessarily mean "able to charge a reasonable price." If "able to deliver" means "has competent engineers familiar with the product, and are willing to put those engineers on the project in exchange for full costs plus profits" rather than "can e-mail you an up-to-date repository", it can be prohibitive. Especially with as few as ten million Pixel 3s sold [1], and a half-life of less than two years for cell phone usage, it's going to be hard to justify even a single engineer-year so late in the game for such a small audience. [1] https://www.zdnet.com/article/pixel-3-by-the-numbers-googles-flagship-phone-was-a-flop https://www.zdnet.com/article/pixel-3-by-the-numbers-googles...
- sorenjan 5y ago
  The half-life of less than two years is a chicken and egg problem. People buy new phones because their old ones doesn't get updates, and phone manufacturers doesn't update old phones because too few people use them. I don't understand how it could take a full time engineer one year to produce a software update for an already fully functional phone. Even if that was the case, $500k/year for ten million devices is 5 cents per phone. If companies can't be bothered to spend 5 cents to keep a fully functional phone from becoming e-waste for another year I think regulation is in order. For reference four of Google's execs recently got huge bonuses ($2M) for contributions to "Google’s performance against social and environmental goals for 2022." https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/4/22867419/google-execs-million-salaries-raise-sec https://www.theverge.com/2022/1/4/22867419/google-execs-mill...

retrac 5y ago

Is this surprising to anyone? My present phone is a Motorola G5 Plus, low-mid range model released in early 2017 which I bought new at the time unlocked for under $200 USD. Motorola stopped updating it with Android 8.1, but it runs the latest version of LineageOS based on Android 11 just fine. One of my tablets is an Amazon device which stopped getting updates to Amazon's proprietary Android 5-based OS. But it runs Android 10-derived LineageOS just fine. A relative was just going to throw it out because the software was out of date. The amount of e-waste produced due to this practice must be scandalous. Purely in terms of specs and performance, most devices since about 2017 can run the latest software. Manufacturers rarely support the device for more than a year or two, though. This pattern of behaviour goes all the way back to the very first Android device. The HTC Dream was dropped after Android 1.6 but it can run later versions.

jrib 5y ago
I ordered a new phone to replace my pixel 1 from 2016 this past week. It was running fine with LineageOS but AT&T is forcing it off their network :/
- celsoazevedo 5y ago
  I've read a few comments over at r/lineageos saying that phones still work. They're sending the message to anyone without a phone "approved" by them.
aaronbrethorst 5y ago
Apple's still supporting devices released in September 2015.
- p_l 5y ago
  Apple also fully controls all the stack, unlike all of the other vendors.
  - aaronbrethorst 5y ago

dzqhz 5y ago

In the meantime, the iPhone 6s, released more than three years before the Pixel 3, is still receiving updates. If you buy an Android you already know the deal. It's not like they are stabbing you in the back.

cageface 5y ago
It's also true that the user experience of a 6s running iOS 15 isn't going to be very good.
- null_object 5y ago
  > It's also true that the user experience of a 6s running iOS 15 isn't going to be very good. Are you basing this on real experience or just fishing for HN anti-Apple upvotes? Just asking because my kid is using an iPhone 6s with iOS15 and really experiencing absolutely no problems whatsoever.
  - whizzter 5y ago
    Buying an iPhone 6s was an excellent if lucky choice, the luck was that the original SE was based on it so the support guarantees of the SE carries the 6s with it. With Apples usual 5 years there'll probably be another 1.5 years of support since the orignal SE was discontinued. (After that I suspect that a bunch of other devices will be discontinued quickly again)
  - evilduck 5y ago
    Definitely the latter. I'm in the same boat, my kid is now the third owner of a handed down 6S and it still does everything without being slow or lacking app support. The features it is missing are mostly neural engine related and are conveniences not vital functionality. I could 100% use that phone as a daily driver and not be frustrated if I swapped in a new battery.
  - cageface 5y ago
    I’ve got more than enough karma and a secure enough ego to have no need to go fishing for votes on HN thanks. Don’t the site guidelines say something about being charitable in your interpretations of other people’s comments? Anyway I have used a 6s on recent versions of iOS. It works but don’t kid yourself if you think the experience in any way compares to using a recent device.

pmontra 5y ago

I go with 200 - 250 Euro phones. The oldest surviving one is from 2016, stuck at Android 8. I use it as backup and as GPS tracker / navigator on my bicycle because it's small. The recent one is from 2019, Android 11 and still getting security updates. I don't know for how long it's going to go, but 70 Euros per year / 6 per month (going down) is OK. Of course I'd prefer to see it going on forever. My laptop is from 2014 and sooner or later it will die either because of lack of spare parts or because NVIDIA won't release a driver compatible with my card AND newer Linux kernels. Who knows if I'll be able to use Noveau by then.

AndrewDucker 5y ago

Wasn't the whole point of Project Treble to abstract the OS from the low level using a HAL so that most of Android could be updated even if the low-level was stuck?

prettyStandard 5y ago
Yeah... Maybe that's why another person in this thread had such an easy time flashing a 3rd party OS using the WebUSB installer and not even opening the terminal. +1 points for Google for cool stuff like Project Treble (gotta keep techies on board) -99 points for Google for abandoning Flagship devices for 99% of users that techies might have sold to family and friends.
- AndrewDucker 5y ago
  If it's so easy, then I don't understand why they don't just have a high level OS version that they can make available across all of their devices? How much overhead can there really be? (I really would like to understand better.)
  - phh 5y ago
    I actually do just that: https://twitter.com/phhusson/status/1447824974396497924 https://twitter.com/phhusson/status/1447824974396497924 My oldest supported device is Pixel 1 (released in 2016): https://twitter.com/phhusson/status/1454155975515152387 https://twitter.com/phhusson/status/1454155975515152387 I'm pretty much alone, and do it in my spare time. So, it's fairly easy to do. Actually, Google do provide some GSIs: https://developer.android.com/topic/generic-system-image/releases https://developer.android.com/topic/generic-system-image/rel... But they are unusable as daily driver on the majority of devices. Many (I'd say most) devices simply won't boot, most devices would have no in-call audio, there wouldn't be VoLTE on any device, backlight control would be broken on many devices, etc. etc. Google doesn't do it because they have no incentive in doing that.
phh 5y ago
Now HALs are indeed properly abstracted. What does Google do with that? They actually use that, to deprecate devices FASTER than ever. How? Well, now that the HALs are perfectly formalized, they can say "Okay, a device launched with Android 8, used audio HAL 2.0, while Android 9-launched devices use audio HAL 3.0. We support Android for 3 upgrades, so for Android 12, we can REMOVE the whole code supporting Audio HAL 2.0". While before that, Google couldn't really know what code to remove or not, because they couldn't really know what was used. So yes, Project Treble, in current Google's implementation, Project Treble turns out to obsolete things even faster than before, and in Google's new Treblish certification plans, I see no place for Fairphones or nVidia Shield with real long-term support. So, overall, IMO, Project Treble net result is pretty close to 0 (it does have some positive aspects, not just the negatives I just said). My hope is that some company would appear to lack this gap. Because thanks to Treble, it is actually possible to make reasonable long-term support, by making the code that Google removed to bring back support.

jaredandrews 5y ago

I flashed my Pixel 3 to the CalyxOS [0] with Android 12 on Friday. It has been at least 6 years since I have put a custom OS on an Android phone... I was shocked at how smooth the process was using the provided installer. Took less than 30 minutes. This particular phone, I use solely for Android dev. Based on my initial experience with CalyxOS, I could definitely see myself switching to it for my daily driver. [0] https://calyxos.org/ https://calyxos.org/

RMPR 5y ago
I have a Pixel 3a XL I am seriously considering installing a custom ROM. One question though, how is the camera app? Is it as performant as the one preinstalled?
- jaredandrews 5y ago
  It's not as good.
callahad 5y ago
Same boat. I just flashed GrapheneOS onto my Pixel 3a over the weekend, and the process was stunning compared to the days of CyanogenMod on my Nexus One. Notably, Graphene offers a WebUSB-based installer (https://grapheneos.org/install/web https://grapheneos.org/install/web), so I was able to completely flash my phone from a browser without ever opening a terminal. Equally amazing and terrifying. (Apparently there's some bad blood between Calyx and Graphene, which is a shame. Both seem solid.)
fiznool 5y ago
I guess the main issue here is the lack of Google Play Services, which may mean that you can’t reliably implement certain features or reproduce conditions that your end users will face. Perhaps it doesn’t matter for a dev-only phone, but if the device doubles up as a test device, this may be where a non-Google ROM falls down. I’d be wary of using CalyxOS as a base for a dev phone, for this reason.
- 5y ago

shantara 5y ago

Google has a support page that lists the planned obsolescence dates for all Pixep phones: https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 https://support.google.com/pixelphone/answer/4457705 My Pixel 3a is going to stop receiving security updates this May. It’s still a perfectly good phone despite the increasing slowdowns with every system or Play Service update. I’ve learned my lesson and switched to iPhone as my next main phone, and relegated the Pixel to serve as a backup.

mnsc 5y ago
If the kings walled gardens Apple would say that "we will keep this next iPhone secure and working snappily for basic tasks, web/email/utility apps, for a decade with a possibility to replace batteries" I would actually consider taking a stroll in that greenhouse. Until then, no thanks.
- gotorazor 5y ago
  Ten years is a really long time in tech. And you can pay Apple to replace the battery for you. "we will keep this next iPhone secure and working snappily for basic tasks, web/email/utility apps" --- No Android phone maker can even make this guarantee for more than 2 years.
  - spacehunt 5y ago
    > No Android phone maker can even make this guarantee for more than 2 years. Samsung pledges 4 OS updates, 5 years of patches for 2021 and 2022 flagships https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_pledges_4_os_updates_5_years_of_patches_for_2021_and_2022_flagships-news-53070.php https://www.gsmarena.com/samsung_pledges_4_os_updates_5_year...
    - hddherman 5y ago
      That's the issue, only flagships. All the more affordable and mainstream models don't get any meaningful software support. Apple has some horrific practices that I don't agree with when it comes to repairability, but at least it treats its products the same way. The iPhone SE from 2016 still runs the latest iOS version, same for iPhone 7.

CretinDesAlpes 5y ago

This is why we need alternatives to Google and Apple phones/OS, here is a list I have written over the years althought it may not be entirely up to date or completely accurate: * Phone hardware alternatives to mainstream brands * Fairphone 4 [NL] * Librem 5 from Purism [US] * Pinephone from Pine64 [China] * FXTec [UK] * Volla [DE] * Linux-based OS * PostmarketOS - "postmarketOS extends Alpine Linux to run on smartphones and other mobile devices. [See compatible devices: https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Devices] * Mobian * Manjaro ARM * Maemo Leste * Pure OS [US] (purism) * Sailfish OS [FI] * Others - mostly android-based alternatives * Ubuntu Touch "Ubuntu Touch is not based on the "mainline" Linux kernel, but rather on the "downstream" (that is, highly patched) Android kernel that came with it originally, with an abstraction layer, halium, to adapt Android drivers and userspace to Linux systems. " * /e/ foundation [FR] * Lineage OS * GrapheneOS * LuneOS * Nemo Mobile * CalyxOS edit: updated according to comments

MayeulC 5y ago
Nit: Pine64.com is china-based (it handles hardware design and production, software is outsourced to the OSS community).
svilen_dobrev 5y ago
after some loong wait-and-look-at-trends, i switched to sailfish last year. linux / qt and all. good. Android-app support.. ~ yes. good. If app doesnot work it's mostly because it wants to googleize me.. and fail. i can live with that. Some websites won't open because somewhat old webkit - the hell with them. No native clients for this or that.. meh. i can live with it. it's essentialy like a computer in pocket as it should be. everyday things. ssh and what not if u really want. Not an eye-enabled-wallet as all else has become..
- AtlasBarfed 5y ago
  Does it have voice recognition for commands? That really is the issue I think Open Source has: they don't have the resources for comprehensive competitive voice recognition interfaces in phone OSes.

farmerstan 5y ago

How on earth are you supposed to show impact and get a promotion if you’re working on maintenance projects?

ece 5y ago
By having a longer term outlook and doing things might actually gain you market share in the long term.
hypertele-Xii 5y ago
By demonstrating that the product you're maintaining indeed still works?
- diffeomorphism 5y ago
  > By demonstrating that the product you're maintaining indeed still works? ... The post you are replying to was a rhetorical question because the answer to your question famously is "No, absolutely not".
shepardrtc 5y ago
This is a snarky response and could absolutely be worded better, but this is the truth in Google. You only advance if you bring something new to the table. Software isn't maintained because there is no reason for people to do so internally.
UncleMeat 5y ago
Believe it or not, the Core Developer organization, which is the most focused on tech debt and maintenance of any of the organizations, has a measurably higher promo rate than the norm at Google. "Can't get promo for tech debt or maintenance" is simply a myth.

CalChris 5y ago

I don't use Android phones but the 2016 iPhone SE is still getting updates. It will probably go legacy this year but 6 years is pretty good support.

0xcafecafe 5y ago

>With these options for updates available, there’s only one conclusion to draw: Google just doesn’t want to keep updating the Pixel 3. That three-year promise has been satisfied, and it's not making more money from Pixel 3 customers. Why go above and beyond? To retain if not grow customers. We are looking for a phone for my wife's mom who has a moto G5 plus. For her user profile (calls, texts and video calls using whatsapp), a moto G5 was perfect at that time. We (pixel users ourselves) are lobbying her to use an iphone especially due to this BS EOL policy by google. She is very careful and can easily use a phone for 5+ years if the device lets her. Only iphone fits the bill as of now.

jeffbee 5y ago

" the phone never feels slow ..." haha lol but seriously. Only a person who never uses iOS can believe this. I have a Pixel 3 and an iPhone SE, by far the worst phone Apple sells, and the difference is like night and day. The Pixel 3 is already a janky, laggy slideshow with Android 12. Android 13 is undoubtedly bloated enough to make the Pixel 3 unusable. I am glad they did not try to cram Android 13 onto this device, because that would have forced me to replace it.

bradfa 5y ago

On the Android side, Samsung Xcover Pro, Fairphone 4, and Google Pixel 6 all promise 5 years of security updates. Apple has a track record of supporting their phones with 5 to 7 years of security updates after launch. Sure, some past phones maybe could have been supported longer, but things ARE getting better. Don't just focus on the negative, embrace the positive things happening in mobile hardware, too.

PufPufPuf 5y ago

I once specifically bought an Android One phone (Xiaomi Mi A2 Lite), in hopes that having a clean Android and the promise of updates for at least two years will prevent this very problem. Sadly, the update to Android 10 was delivered almost a year late and in such a broken state that made the phone practically unusable -- apps were getting killed so fast that you couldn't even login to some apps as opening an in-app browser immediately killed the original app. I have nothing but respect for the XDA community who managed not only to fix the problems, but to update the device to Android 11 and then Android 12 while adding useful features, including a port of Google Camera with all the AI features. So if you care about the software on your phone, I'm afraid that using a custom ROM is the only way.

beeboop 5y ago

I wish they didn't push 12, it completely broke my wife's Pixel 3

aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
Install Calyx or Graphene, it's a 10 min procedure front to back.
- beeboop 5y ago
  it will take her hours to back up her phone via USB C cable since she can't do it on the phone directly, and then again hours more to set her phone up again as it was

yunohn 5y ago

> And, according to everyone I've spoken to, there aren't any good technical reasons for it being left behind. Google just doesn't care. Despite all the reactionary commentary here, this is the only “evidence” mentioned for the headline. The rest of it is opinions and preferences. Why aren’t the alluded-to technical reasons listed or explained?

fileoffset 5y ago

STOP BUYING GOOGLE HARDWARE

aaaaaaaaata 5y ago
At least don't buy it new.