4 ms·

Gorby appears to be the sole exception. Might have something to do with having close family killed in the famines, and tortured in the Gulags. Every European ot

Gorby appears to be the sole exception. Might have something to do with having close family killed in the famines, and tortured in the Gulags. Every European other regime fell under pressure from the streets. Cuba is a tyranny. They've soften up to get European investment and tourists, but they're brutal in their indoctrination, imprisonment of dissidents, etc. They're also an important (and beloved) backstop preventing American domination in L. America. Pinochet didn't fall, he basically handed over power peacefully. His (surprisingly liberal) constitution of 1980 established him as head of the armed forces (which he was until he died) and promised free elections. He allowed for a fair and free elections in '88 that he lost and whose result he respected paving the way for the 1990 presidential elections. Again he lost and respected the result. He's also a murderer who slaughtered thousands of innocents, but that's peanuts compared what the commies have wrought. Everything I wrote is a gross oversimplification. Volumes have been written for each of the three topics you glibly referenced.

nopenopenopeno 5y ago
You do realize Pinochet was a capitalist dictator and the people he murdered were socialists, no? And you have to be absolutely brainwashed to believe Cuba is a “tyrannical dictatorship.”
- onenukecourse 5y ago
  "Pinochet was a capitalist dictator" If you read my comment carefully I clearly state: - Pinochet slaughtered (tens) thousands of innocents - Cuba is a backstop to American imperialism in the region which I clearly eluded as a good thing for those L. Americans outside of Cuba (at least until Americans drop their Monroe BS). My parents are from Argentina and lost many friends, students and professors (luckily no family) to capitalist dictators. The battles of L. America literally run through my blood. I think I am very well aware who the Chilean equivalent of Videla is. Pinochet, however, must be recognized for having relinquished power unlike his Argentine capitalist counter parts and Cuban socialist counterparts. Anyway, I think I have demonstrated a little more nuance in this very complicated topic than trite single line slogans. I am not a "capitalist", whatever that means. I reject the destructive "socialism" vs "capitalism" false dichotomy.
  - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
    > I reject the destructive "socialism" vs "capitalism" false dichotomy. Nothing could expose your class position as much as your suggestion that Cuba’s leaders are Pinochet’s “counterparts.” Pinochet was lifted into power by the American capitalist empire. Castro was lifted into power by the Cuban working class. It takes a lot of nerve to equate the two in any way, and even more to suggest that the latter should step down in spite of overwhelming support from the Cuban people.
    - onenukecourse 5y ago
      Nothing I said contradicts what you wrote. The US did assist Pinochet (bad). The Cuban people did revolt against Battista (good). You'd be surprised, however, how popular Pinochet is particularly among working class Chileans, just as you'd obviously be surprised how much support Cuba needed from the USSR to keep the regime together. Material support and training manuals on how to buttstock resistive people. Battista fell over 60 years ago, Cubans want something else. Reality is complicated, it cannot be reduced to pretty slogans.
      - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
        I am not surprised by either! But, in both cases, the US has played an extremely aggressive role in generating the circumstances.
- helloworld11 5y ago
  And what would you call the Cuba of the last several decades? A democratic politically liberal state that respects personal and political freedoms? I'm honestly curious. Also, you don't need to be brainwashed, you simply need to read, observe and speak to people who live or have lived there.
mantas 5y ago
Gorby is not exception. He was bad at his job, yet he still tried to do same shit. E.g. January 1991 events. Looking at the big picture it's clear that either he ordered tanks on his own civilians OR he knew about them and was too coward to come out that he lost chain-of-command.

nopenopenopeno 5y ago

You do realize Pinochet was a capitalist dictator and the people he murdered were socialists, no? And you have to be absolutely brainwashed to believe Cuba is a “tyrannical dictatorship.”

onenukecourse 5y ago
"Pinochet was a capitalist dictator" If you read my comment carefully I clearly state: - Pinochet slaughtered (tens) thousands of innocents - Cuba is a backstop to American imperialism in the region which I clearly eluded as a good thing for those L. Americans outside of Cuba (at least until Americans drop their Monroe BS). My parents are from Argentina and lost many friends, students and professors (luckily no family) to capitalist dictators. The battles of L. America literally run through my blood. I think I am very well aware who the Chilean equivalent of Videla is. Pinochet, however, must be recognized for having relinquished power unlike his Argentine capitalist counter parts and Cuban socialist counterparts. Anyway, I think I have demonstrated a little more nuance in this very complicated topic than trite single line slogans. I am not a "capitalist", whatever that means. I reject the destructive "socialism" vs "capitalism" false dichotomy.
- nopenopenopeno 5y ago
  > I reject the destructive "socialism" vs "capitalism" false dichotomy. Nothing could expose your class position as much as your suggestion that Cuba’s leaders are Pinochet’s “counterparts.” Pinochet was lifted into power by the American capitalist empire. Castro was lifted into power by the Cuban working class. It takes a lot of nerve to equate the two in any way, and even more to suggest that the latter should step down in spite of overwhelming support from the Cuban people.
  - onenukecourse 5y ago
    Nothing I said contradicts what you wrote. The US did assist Pinochet (bad). The Cuban people did revolt against Battista (good). You'd be surprised, however, how popular Pinochet is particularly among working class Chileans, just as you'd obviously be surprised how much support Cuba needed from the USSR to keep the regime together. Material support and training manuals on how to buttstock resistive people. Battista fell over 60 years ago, Cubans want something else. Reality is complicated, it cannot be reduced to pretty slogans.
    - nopenopenopeno 5y ago
      I am not surprised by either! But, in both cases, the US has played an extremely aggressive role in generating the circumstances.
helloworld11 5y ago
And what would you call the Cuba of the last several decades? A democratic politically liberal state that respects personal and political freedoms? I'm honestly curious. Also, you don't need to be brainwashed, you simply need to read, observe and speak to people who live or have lived there.

mantas 5y ago

Gorby is not exception. He was bad at his job, yet he still tried to do same shit. E.g. January 1991 events. Looking at the big picture it's clear that either he ordered tanks on his own civilians OR he knew about them and was too coward to come out that he lost chain-of-command.