4 ms·

> Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? That's a great example actually, because the reason you can't get anywhere w

by ATsch 5y ago

> Was telling people about trains and cars creating a need where there wasn’t one? That's a great example actually, because the reason you can't get anywhere without a car these days is marketing campaigns by the automobile and oil industry. First by suggesting the newly necessary road safety standards and ridiculing people for being in the street without a car ("jaywalking") to the point that it was criminalized, then by sponsoring enormous displays about the glorious car-dependent future at multiple world fairs (GMs "Futurama" holds the attendance record at 5 million visitors to this day), shutting down streetcar companies via lobbying and acquisitions and eventually even providing the US secretary of defense, who then used the defense budget to bulldoze inner cities to run highways through them. A development that caused the US to have the highest car dependence, car ownership and transport emissions of any large nation today. So yes, I think it's fair to say there was a bit of artificial need created here.

jonathanstrange 5y ago
Not to speak of a promised sense of freedom you could only ever possibly obtain by driving around in the right kind of car and smoking the right brand of cigarettes.
- itsoktocry 5y ago
  >a promised sense of freedom you could only ever possibly obtain by driving around in the right kind of car You do realize that having the ability to hop in your car and drive wherever you want to go without having to report to anyone provides an incredible amount of freedom, right?
  - PinguTS 5y ago
    You don't need a car for this. You can use trains and other means of transportation. Take a look at other countries. Japan, Singapore, France with cities like Paris, Netherlands with cites like Amsterdam, which transformed from a car centric city in the 1950s to now a very lively city with lots of bikes and public transport.
  - shakes_mcjunkie 5y ago
    Who are you "reporting" to when you catch a train? Also, in cars, you're using Google maps which is tracking you, you're license plate is fully visible which allows you to be tracked, there are ticketing cameras, aerial monitoring, tool booths, speed traps... Yea sure pretty free.
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    You do realize that navigating infastucture designed exclusively for cars without one has a much larger negative impact on your freedom?
itsoktocry 5y ago
>because the reason you can't get anywhere without a car these days is marketing campaigns by the automobile and oil industry We aren't all brainless automatons. Not everything is a giant conspiracy. Have you considered that there are people that actually like cars and find them convenient and useful? Cars and the highway system completely changed the course of commerce in this country. Sure, that has lead to some problems we're going to have to correct, but this idea that a bunch of moustache-twirling executives sat in a board room figuring out how to force cars on people is a bit much.
- adonovan 5y ago
  I was about to reply that this is exactly what happened in L.A. in the 1940s and suggest that you look up the "Great American Streetcar Conspiracy", my favorite example of monopolistic conspiracy. But apparently much has changed since I last did that myself, and now the conspiracy seems to be little more than... fake news. Unless of course we're in the midst of a "Great American Streetcar Conspiracy"-Conspiracy Conspiracy. ;-)
  - shkkmo 5y ago
    That is a bit of a misleading way of putting it. There was indeed a "street car conspiracy" and it even led to criminal convictions. The interpretation that this conspiracy was intended to kill off street cars is harder to justify since street cars were already struggling in the aftermath the great depression andany were bankrupt. I do think that the actions of GM et all did accelerate the decline of the street car but the urban myth about is "Great American Streetcar Company" is generally overblown.
    - jacquesm 5y ago
      Streetcars and public transport in general should never be run on a for profit basis.
      - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
        > public transport in general should never be run on a for profit basis Japan seems to do fine [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan
sigmaml 5y ago
This view is probably too US-centric. There is a lot of the world (including developed world), where people get around everyday without relying on cars for everything. I do not negate your point that marketing has a strong component of creating a need where there isn't one. But, its success in doing so relies on a strong combination of cultural, economic and political backgrounds.

by ATsch 5y ago

jonathanstrange 5y ago

Not to speak of a promised sense of freedom you could only ever possibly obtain by driving around in the right kind of car and smoking the right brand of cigarettes.

itsoktocry 5y ago
>a promised sense of freedom you could only ever possibly obtain by driving around in the right kind of car You do realize that having the ability to hop in your car and drive wherever you want to go without having to report to anyone provides an incredible amount of freedom, right?
- PinguTS 5y ago
  You don't need a car for this. You can use trains and other means of transportation. Take a look at other countries. Japan, Singapore, France with cities like Paris, Netherlands with cites like Amsterdam, which transformed from a car centric city in the 1950s to now a very lively city with lots of bikes and public transport.
- shakes_mcjunkie 5y ago
  Who are you "reporting" to when you catch a train? Also, in cars, you're using Google maps which is tracking you, you're license plate is fully visible which allows you to be tracked, there are ticketing cameras, aerial monitoring, tool booths, speed traps... Yea sure pretty free.
- shkkmo 5y ago
  You do realize that navigating infastucture designed exclusively for cars without one has a much larger negative impact on your freedom?

itsoktocry 5y ago

>because the reason you can't get anywhere without a car these days is marketing campaigns by the automobile and oil industry We aren't all brainless automatons. Not everything is a giant conspiracy. Have you considered that there are people that actually like cars and find them convenient and useful? Cars and the highway system completely changed the course of commerce in this country. Sure, that has lead to some problems we're going to have to correct, but this idea that a bunch of moustache-twirling executives sat in a board room figuring out how to force cars on people is a bit much.

adonovan 5y ago
I was about to reply that this is exactly what happened in L.A. in the 1940s and suggest that you look up the "Great American Streetcar Conspiracy", my favorite example of monopolistic conspiracy. But apparently much has changed since I last did that myself, and now the conspiracy seems to be little more than... fake news. Unless of course we're in the midst of a "Great American Streetcar Conspiracy"-Conspiracy Conspiracy. ;-)
- shkkmo 5y ago
  That is a bit of a misleading way of putting it. There was indeed a "street car conspiracy" and it even led to criminal convictions. The interpretation that this conspiracy was intended to kill off street cars is harder to justify since street cars were already struggling in the aftermath the great depression andany were bankrupt. I do think that the actions of GM et all did accelerate the decline of the street car but the urban myth about is "Great American Streetcar Company" is generally overblown.
  - jacquesm 5y ago
    Streetcars and public transport in general should never be run on a for profit basis.
    - JumpCrisscross 5y ago
      > public transport in general should never be run on a for profit basis Japan seems to do fine [1]. [1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rail_transport_in_Japan

sigmaml 5y ago

This view is probably too US-centric. There is a lot of the world (including developed world), where people get around everyday without relying on cars for everything. I do not negate your point that marketing has a strong component of creating a need where there isn't one. But, its success in doing so relies on a strong combination of cultural, economic and political backgrounds.