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We have a binary and universal format for plain text (utf8) that is extended all the time with additional emojis. But it seems almost unimaginable that we ever

by jdvh 5y ago

We have a binary and universal format for plain text (utf8) that is extended all the time with additional emojis. But it seems almost unimaginable that we ever get a binary text format that also allows simple semantic markup, like emphasis, tables, hyperlinks, amounts, dates, and phone numbers. It's 2022, and really, we should be able to copy a paragraph from an email with a table in it into a chat app and have it just work. HTML is way too complex to use as data communication format between apps (vulnerabilities; every app allows a different subset). Markdown is made for humans to read/write, when what we need is a simple unambiguous binary format that is easy to parse. We can have compound emojis where a polar bear is a bear + a snowflake joined by a zero-width joiner. But a datetime or number in text is too much to ask?

seletz 5y ago
Well, that really seems to be a very hard problem to me. Tables for instance get quite complex pretty fast -- joined cells, text alignment, etc. As for a format which -- not plain text, though -- that handles this is rich text. It's been around for quite some time. IMHO the problem is in the difference between presentation and data. One group of consumers want the "data" and parse it, the other group of consumers want to basically have it "look the same in this app as in the other app, and don't make my think."
- jdvh 5y ago
  Tables can be arbitrarily complex, just like html, so yes a line has to be drawn somewhere. Spreadsheets and slide presentations can be copy-pasted as file attachments. That's fine. You can't have a table look the same in every app, nor is that desirable (you'd have to embed fonts and re-create postscript). What you can have is the ability to copy-paste a table (or a bulleted list) back and forth between apps without mangling the state in the process. Rich Text intertwines semantics and style and it's not a good solution. Most of the time you don't need the layout precision of postscript. There is a huge difference between not having any kind of tables or semantic context for text and having some that cover the 95% of daily use.
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by jdvh 5y ago

seletz 5y ago

Well, that really seems to be a very hard problem to me. Tables for instance get quite complex pretty fast -- joined cells, text alignment, etc. As for a format which -- not plain text, though -- that handles this is rich text. It's been around for quite some time. IMHO the problem is in the difference between presentation and data. One group of consumers want the "data" and parse it, the other group of consumers want to basically have it "look the same in this app as in the other app, and don't make my think."

jdvh 5y ago
Tables can be arbitrarily complex, just like html, so yes a line has to be drawn somewhere. Spreadsheets and slide presentations can be copy-pasted as file attachments. That's fine. You can't have a table look the same in every app, nor is that desirable (you'd have to embed fonts and re-create postscript). What you can have is the ability to copy-paste a table (or a bulleted list) back and forth between apps without mangling the state in the process. Rich Text intertwines semantics and style and it's not a good solution. Most of the time you don't need the layout precision of postscript. There is a huge difference between not having any kind of tables or semantic context for text and having some that cover the 95% of daily use.

deleted 5y ago

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