4 ms·

Sorry for sounding like a cynical right-winger but I'm sure people prefer to share toilets with other people instead of sleeping in the streets. In my country t

Sorry for sounding like a cynical right-winger but I'm sure people prefer to share toilets with other people instead of sleeping in the streets. In my country there are very regid regulations on what standard apartments has to fulfill, which has the consequence that not enough apartments are built that can be afforded by poor people.

nisegami 5y ago
I've long since suspected that a small part of the housing crises in the developed world is due to the high minimum standards for apartments and housing.
- CraneWorm 5y ago
  It's not, it's due to greed and people (and corporations) living of rent.
  - sacrosancty 5y ago
    Why do people keep ascribing high housing costs to some nebulous "greed"? Isn't all economic activity due to greed? Anyone trying to choose a lower priced thing to buy or trying to get paid a higher wage is also doing it because of greed. The parent is right. Shanty towns are the extreme low-regulation end of housing and they're also extremely cheap. It's a matter of how bad we want to allow people to treat themselves and our standards for safety and comfort keep going up so cost does too.
- nickpp 5y ago
  Small?! Supply side is completely f-ed in real estate by red tape and regulations on building. It's the main reason we have such housing costs across the developed world.
IMSAI8080 5y ago
Having a bathroom shared between many strangers is exceptionally annoying. You have to queue for your turn to use the shower. If someone spends ages in their, well bad luck you're going to be late for work or no shower for you. Many people these days choose not to share a single bathroom even between family members, never mind trying to negotiate with your co-residents. Then how is this shared bathroom cleaned and by who and to what standard? What if one of your neighbours refuses to do the work? Bad luck for you. The $500 cost of a shower unit and toilet isn't what makes housing unavailable to the poor. Housing standards are a good thing as accommodation quality regresses to the minimum allowed by law.
- mafuy 5y ago
  I disagree. These problems are true, but they can mostly be worked around. For instance, do you have to shower in the morning? - many people do not. They are not worse than other problems the affected people experience, I'm sure. The cost issue is less from the inventory and more from the space. Even just 2qm (quite small bathroom) more per unit adds up to a lot quickly. Personally, I hate to share a bathroom with neighbors. But when I could not avoid it for a while when I was younger, it could still manage. I'm sure others in less fortunate positions could, too, considering the other, more impactful crap they have to deal with.
  - IMSAI8080 5y ago
    The comment I was replying to presents a false choice. It's suggesting that people are sleeping on the streets due to the provision of quality accommodation and if only quality of housing could be made worse people would not be sleeping on the streets. What utter nonsense. You can provide people with housing AND make it decent. A 2 square metre bathroom is too luxurious for you? How small a room are you suggesting should be provided to each individual in your view?
    - mafuy 5y ago
      I felt the parent comment was not so much talking in absolutes but rather pointing out that overly broad regulation can be a real problem. I'm generally a fan of regulation, but I can see how it can be a problem. I, and I think you and the grandparent comment, too, agree that there is a tradeoff to be made. I probably should have said 4qm, which I believe is more commonly used. In that case, merging let's say 4 of them into one shared room yields 12qm of space. That's enough for an apartment!

nisegami 5y ago

I've long since suspected that a small part of the housing crises in the developed world is due to the high minimum standards for apartments and housing.

CraneWorm 5y ago
It's not, it's due to greed and people (and corporations) living of rent.
- sacrosancty 5y ago
  Why do people keep ascribing high housing costs to some nebulous "greed"? Isn't all economic activity due to greed? Anyone trying to choose a lower priced thing to buy or trying to get paid a higher wage is also doing it because of greed. The parent is right. Shanty towns are the extreme low-regulation end of housing and they're also extremely cheap. It's a matter of how bad we want to allow people to treat themselves and our standards for safety and comfort keep going up so cost does too.
nickpp 5y ago
Small?! Supply side is completely f-ed in real estate by red tape and regulations on building. It's the main reason we have such housing costs across the developed world.

IMSAI8080 5y ago

Having a bathroom shared between many strangers is exceptionally annoying. You have to queue for your turn to use the shower. If someone spends ages in their, well bad luck you're going to be late for work or no shower for you. Many people these days choose not to share a single bathroom even between family members, never mind trying to negotiate with your co-residents. Then how is this shared bathroom cleaned and by who and to what standard? What if one of your neighbours refuses to do the work? Bad luck for you. The $500 cost of a shower unit and toilet isn't what makes housing unavailable to the poor. Housing standards are a good thing as accommodation quality regresses to the minimum allowed by law.

mafuy 5y ago
I disagree. These problems are true, but they can mostly be worked around. For instance, do you have to shower in the morning? - many people do not. They are not worse than other problems the affected people experience, I'm sure. The cost issue is less from the inventory and more from the space. Even just 2qm (quite small bathroom) more per unit adds up to a lot quickly. Personally, I hate to share a bathroom with neighbors. But when I could not avoid it for a while when I was younger, it could still manage. I'm sure others in less fortunate positions could, too, considering the other, more impactful crap they have to deal with.
- IMSAI8080 5y ago
  The comment I was replying to presents a false choice. It's suggesting that people are sleeping on the streets due to the provision of quality accommodation and if only quality of housing could be made worse people would not be sleeping on the streets. What utter nonsense. You can provide people with housing AND make it decent. A 2 square metre bathroom is too luxurious for you? How small a room are you suggesting should be provided to each individual in your view?
  - mafuy 5y ago
    I felt the parent comment was not so much talking in absolutes but rather pointing out that overly broad regulation can be a real problem. I'm generally a fan of regulation, but I can see how it can be a problem. I, and I think you and the grandparent comment, too, agree that there is a tradeoff to be made. I probably should have said 4qm, which I believe is more commonly used. In that case, merging let's say 4 of them into one shared room yields 12qm of space. That's enough for an apartment!