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>a huge net positive A huge net positive for buisness, that's for sure. There are currently over 25,000 lobbyists in Brussels and Berlin [1]. As for the citize

>a huge net positive A huge net positive for buisness, that's for sure. There are currently over 25,000 lobbyists in Brussels and Berlin [1]. As for the citizens, that is up to debate, and highly individual. Truckers in Sweden, for example, that currently find themselves competing with truckers from all over europe who also fill the tank in countries with far cheaper gas, cant really be said to enjoy positive gain from the EU [2]. [1] https://www.economist.com/business/2021/05/13/the-power-of-lobbyists-is-growing-in-brussels-and-berlin https://www.economist.com/business/2021/05/13/the-power-of-l... [2] https://www.transportarbetaren.se/lavinartad-okning-av-tredjelandschaufforer/ https://www.transportarbetaren.se/lavinartad-okning-av-tredj...

mingusrude 5y ago
I am not denying that there are problems for truckers in Sweden caused by open borders to other EU-countries and that those problems should be fixed. However, without EU there would probably be a lot less stuff to truck around.
- raspberry1337 5y ago
jsiepkes 5y ago
> who also fill the tank in countries with far cheaper gas So we are talking here about inter-country transport, right? Because I don't think it's very econimical to fill up your gastank in Poland if your driving deliveries locally inside Sweden? That will probably not be a net-win. If you are a Swedish company importing from for example Poland you could always let a Polish transport company handle the transport. The EU didn't change much about that. A Swedish trucker driving to Poland could also fill up it's truck in Poland with cheap gas. So what did the EU do that made cheaper gas more of an competitive advantage then it was before? BTW gas prices are something that Swedens goverment themselve handle...
- raspberry1337 5y ago
  I'm not a trucker, so you would have to ask them about the gas they complain about. But there are others more obvious issues mentioned by the unions by international trucking - they have to compete with companies utilizing slave labour and sometimes even cases of trafficking. Hence my point that benefits of the EU is highly individual. Many have surely won, such as large companies, and many have lost. >So what did the EU do that made cheaper gas more of an competitive advantage then it was before? Enable all european truckers to work anywhere. >BTW gas prices are something that Swedens goverment themselve handle... I don't see how this is relevant to anything said previously, and yes, that is quite obvious.
  - jsiepkes 5y ago
    > I'm not a trucker, so you would have to ask them about the gas they complain about. You presented it as a (I presume good) example of your point. So I'm asking you because it definitly does not sound logical. > Enable all european truckers to work anywhere. That's not an answer to the question what the EU has to do with cheap gas prices in countries like Poland being a issue for a Swedish truck driver. A Polish truck driver working in Sweden is going to bring his own cheap gas from Poland and undercut Swedish transport companies? It just doesn't make sense how that is related to allowing to work everywere. The wages could be a problem, sure, but that gap has also been largely plugged [1]. But gas prices...? > I don't see how this is relevant to anything said previously, and yes, that is quite obvious. Its relevant because if it's a real problem Sweden can lower taxes on the gas prices in order to remain competitive. That's not something the EU needs to do. My point is that local politicians are quick to point to the EU. However it wasn't local politicians that managed to for example get the mobile roaming fee's gone for good. If you want to have a laugh just look at the UK. Vodafone et al said the roaming costs wouldn't return after brexit. Yet somehow the roaming costs are back for UK citizens... [1] https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/controversial-eu-labour-rules-tackle-truck-drivers-pay-and-working-conditions/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/controvers...
    - MrMan 5y ago
zambal 5y ago
I'm not sure this is a convincing example of policy that results in a net negative? It seems to be a positive for truck drivers from other parts of Europe. Maybe for most EU citizens too if it leads to lower transport prices?
- raspberry1337 5y ago
  Hence the word 'individually'. Great for truckers from poorer countries with weak or no unions sure, and great for companies that get cheaper trucking.
jevgeni 5y ago
- raspberry1337 5y ago

mingusrude 5y ago

I am not denying that there are problems for truckers in Sweden caused by open borders to other EU-countries and that those problems should be fixed. However, without EU there would probably be a lot less stuff to truck around.

raspberry1337 5y ago

jsiepkes 5y ago

> who also fill the tank in countries with far cheaper gas So we are talking here about inter-country transport, right? Because I don't think it's very econimical to fill up your gastank in Poland if your driving deliveries locally inside Sweden? That will probably not be a net-win. If you are a Swedish company importing from for example Poland you could always let a Polish transport company handle the transport. The EU didn't change much about that. A Swedish trucker driving to Poland could also fill up it's truck in Poland with cheap gas. So what did the EU do that made cheaper gas more of an competitive advantage then it was before? BTW gas prices are something that Swedens goverment themselve handle...

raspberry1337 5y ago
I'm not a trucker, so you would have to ask them about the gas they complain about. But there are others more obvious issues mentioned by the unions by international trucking - they have to compete with companies utilizing slave labour and sometimes even cases of trafficking. Hence my point that benefits of the EU is highly individual. Many have surely won, such as large companies, and many have lost. >So what did the EU do that made cheaper gas more of an competitive advantage then it was before? Enable all european truckers to work anywhere. >BTW gas prices are something that Swedens goverment themselve handle... I don't see how this is relevant to anything said previously, and yes, that is quite obvious.
- jsiepkes 5y ago
  > I'm not a trucker, so you would have to ask them about the gas they complain about. You presented it as a (I presume good) example of your point. So I'm asking you because it definitly does not sound logical. > Enable all european truckers to work anywhere. That's not an answer to the question what the EU has to do with cheap gas prices in countries like Poland being a issue for a Swedish truck driver. A Polish truck driver working in Sweden is going to bring his own cheap gas from Poland and undercut Swedish transport companies? It just doesn't make sense how that is related to allowing to work everywere. The wages could be a problem, sure, but that gap has also been largely plugged [1]. But gas prices...? > I don't see how this is relevant to anything said previously, and yes, that is quite obvious. Its relevant because if it's a real problem Sweden can lower taxes on the gas prices in order to remain competitive. That's not something the EU needs to do. My point is that local politicians are quick to point to the EU. However it wasn't local politicians that managed to for example get the mobile roaming fee's gone for good. If you want to have a laugh just look at the UK. Vodafone et al said the roaming costs wouldn't return after brexit. Yet somehow the roaming costs are back for UK citizens... [1] https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/controversial-eu-labour-rules-tackle-truck-drivers-pay-and-working-conditions/ https://www.euractiv.com/section/road-safety/news/controvers...
  - MrMan 5y ago

zambal 5y ago

I'm not sure this is a convincing example of policy that results in a net negative? It seems to be a positive for truck drivers from other parts of Europe. Maybe for most EU citizens too if it leads to lower transport prices?

raspberry1337 5y ago
Hence the word 'individually'. Great for truckers from poorer countries with weak or no unions sure, and great for companies that get cheaper trucking.

jevgeni 5y ago

raspberry1337 5y ago